I heard the UC agreement entered into on the Senate floor. No objection. All done by about 7:13 this evening.

The short version: Action today will be H.R.6331 - Medicare and H.R.2642 - Supplemenatal Appropriations, then recess.

H.R.3221 - Housing Bailout and H.R.6304 - FISA are pushed out to the week of July 7.

So we’ve got 12 days to convince our Senators to stop channeling the barnacle and protect our Constitution.

And since a good many of them will be back home over their July 4th “vacation” it might be a good idea to have some hands-on lobbying.

Christy and I were brainstorming that. Now if we can just stop having huge T-Storms here in the midwest (you getting them too, MD?) then maybe we can get back to planning some fun…

It still fascinates me that the telcoms, not Bushco, are the only folks worthy of immunity mention in both Feingold and Dodd’s talking points.

Dodd mentioned Bush:

that may have engaged in President Bush’s illegal wiretapping program.

I am glad Feingold and his allies are explaining why this is a threshold that will be best if understood, as it could feed imbalance among the branches; it is more precedential if it passes as written currently than the same old attrition of personal privacy characteristic of first world social order; and it plays excellent counterpoint to the hearing this morning about abrogation of treaties by rule of committee: ‘He wrote this opinion; we are prohibited from telling you who told him to write about that; he forgot the dog ate the department guidelines, and even is amnestic of his own researches.’

Dog ate the homework on this one too:

We were somewhat astonished this week to learn that the Pentagon had awarded a $298 million contract to arms dealer AEY Inc. despite the fact the company and its then-21-year-old president were on the U.S. State Department’s Arms Trafficking Watchlist.

An Army general said, quite simply, they don’t typically check that watchlist before awarding big contracts.

Now we’ve found evidence that the State Department might not be checking its own list.

What’s the point of all this spying on us if the government folks aren’t even using what they have legally?

Now if we can just stop having huge T-Storms here in the midwest (you getting them too, MD?)

They say mañana will bring mucho boomers. Gonna play havoc with the Women’s US Golf Open here.

Probably not a good idea to be waving a mashie around in the air.

A UC agreement means no filibuster, yes? Which means we’d need 51 no votes on the bill to stop it, or 51 yes votes on the amendment to strip immunity.

Do any of those other amendments have the likelihood of passing? Because that would at least send the bill to a conference committee. And maybe one of the amendments is a poison pill.

Getting from 15 to 51 in 12 days is, in a word, unlikely.

Correct on all counts.
51 votes in favor of immunity–we had something like 32 in February.
60 votes for a stay on immunity–an interesting idea, but there’s a reason it’s 60–we’d need people like Norm Coleman to play along. We couldn’t get 60 for exclusivity in February (we lost Baucus, Hillary wasn’t there, and Norm voted no–I think we ended up with 58, and maybe Holy Joe voted no).

I can’t say that anything would be a poison pill, but I don’t see getting these thresholds.

Digg this

Wait. Ive maligned Baucus.

It was Ben Nelson we lost on exclusivity in February.

Constitutionally, July 8 will be a good day to die. The Fourth Amendment will die honorably, as a warrior. But thanks to Hanoi Harry and No Table Legs Pelosi, it will die nevertheless.

Wait, wait don’t tell me; there’s a difference?

Lobby them with this …

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers

He has obstructed the administration of justice

He has erected a multitude of new offices and sent hither swarms of offices to harass our people

He has effected to render the military independent of and superior to the civil power

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jYyttEu_NLU

Damn DFH’s /s

Big difference. Baucus is even a vote against telecom immunity.

Okay, fair enough. But really, with that square jaw and speech affect, doesn’t Nelson seem like a character out of a Spielberg Toy Story genre cartoon?

Note, too, that my Dkos signature is from Max Baucus, from several years back.

Don’t want to malign Baucus.

Mighty nice! Wouldn’t mind hearing that from the wells of the House as a couple (or a dozen) Impeachment proceedings got under way.

Understood. The person responsible for that comment has been sacked.

LOL!

Link to site with audio of Reid and McConnell entering into a series of UC Agreements

The first one is on Medicare, the second on is on the Supplemental Appropriations. There is some discussion about the amount of debate time under Medicare, then the agreement covering today’s action is agreed to, without objection.

Then a cloture motion is filed to limit debate on Medicare.

Then there is a separate agreement on FISA - “on Tuesday July 8th …” It takes him 90 seconds to read the UC agreement!

Then a cloture motion is filed to limit debate on final passage FISA

Then a brief quorum call (probably so Reid can catch his breath)

Then goes to H.R.3221 - Housing Bailout - propounds some details of amendment, and files a cloture motion to limit debate on the details of amendment propounded. The cloture vote on that to be at 5:00 p.m. Monday July 7th.

Then some speechifying. Enjoy.

I thought this commentary over at TruthOut was most fitting:

It’s often said that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. False. The vast majority of honest public servants in Congress are Democrats. However, it would not be safe to say that the majority of Democrats are honest public servants.

Dan Eggers has a story up at the WaPo on the torture hearings. Link. It doesn’t have much interesting, kind of like the hearing, but there is this, which seems pretty snarky to me:

Addington, who appeared at the hearing under subpoena, had tense exchanges with lawmakers. At one point, he said he was not familiar with the conservative legal theory of a “unitary executive,” then went on to describe it as the Constitution’s delegation of all executive power to the president.

Constitutionally, July 8 will be a good day to die. The Fourth Amendment will die honorably, as a warrior. But thanks to Hanoi Harry and No Table Legs Pelosi, it will die nevertheless.

not if we can help it, man oh man, we cannot let this country fall on our watch, this is for your children, your grandchildren, this is for thomas jefferson and for ben franklin

we

must

not

fail

TO THE BATMOBILE!

I am calling everyone with this;

“how on EARTH do you pass a bill that forgives ANYONE who might have sold our information to TERRORISTS?”

I am calling republicans, I am calling democrats

I will add;

“if some depraved sole used data they gathered and tracked and raped a child, how on EARTH do you give them immunity?”

I am taking out ALL the stops;

“if a telecom listened on one of your colegues conversations and used information to BLACKMAIL THEM into signing law that STEALS from the American people, HOW ON EARTH ARE YOU GIVING THEM IMMUNITY FOR THAT?”

TO THE BATMOBILE!

Can we help with the brainstorming ?

How about a ‘burial’ of the 4th amendment on the 4th of July … I’ll have some more ideas
after a bit of Belgian Brew introspection …

Um … cuz the legal methods implicate BushCo & Friends …

OT but not really - Was reading a post over at HuffPo entitled: Serenity Lost: Obama And The Netroots which had some excellent on-target comments by Jane, but while that was most interesting, the real thing that really caught my attention was a link in that piece to a diary over at KOS by Barack Obama on Sept. 30, 2005 and this prescient (wrt to his current FISA stance and perhaps much, much more) set of statements:

There is one way, over the long haul, to guarantee the appointment of judges that are sensitive to issues of social justice, and that is to win the right to appoint them by recapturing the presidency and the Senate. And I don’t believe we get there by vilifying good allies, with a lifetime record of battling for progressive causes, over one vote or position. I am convinced that, our mutual frustrations and strongly-held beliefs notwithstanding, the strategy driving much of Democratic advocacy, and the tone of much of our rhetoric, is an impediment to creating a workable progressive majority in this country.

According to the storyline that drives many advocacy groups and Democratic activists - a storyline often reflected in comments on this blog - we are up against a sharply partisan, radically conservative, take-no-prisoners Republican party. They have beaten us twice by energizing their base with red meat rhetoric and single-minded devotion and discipline to their agenda. In order to beat them, it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in “appeasing” the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era.

I think this perspective misreads the American people…

(My Bold)

So as to rallying the troops, as many here rightfully acknowledge is our duty, so too do we also acknowledge that the lay of the land is decidely against us.

Wish it were not, but wishing won’t make it the reality we want.

No Senator Obama, you yourself misread the American people, and perhaps tragically so!

Thus I quote (with a minor modification, please forgive me William):

…Once more into the breech dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our British American dead, In peace there’s nothing so becomes a man, As modest, stillness, and humility, But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, Disguise fair nature with hard – favour’d rage…

Some of us in Canuckistan have been calling BO and the other Senators and will continue to do so until they reverse this.

Calls to Dodd and Feingold to show our gratitude are very much appreciated …

Dodd and Feingold’s “additional time” is typical, as they are the chief voices of the opposition. On the other hand, those two 10 minute carve-outs of time to Patrick Leahy strike me as unusual.

My WAG: Leahy is seriously ticked off at the way Steny and Jello Jay went around the Senate Judiciary committee to work out this deal. This ought to add to his righteous indignation at the bill itself, and might also suggest that other democratic members of the Senate Judiciary committee might be open to a little pressure.

Those other dems are these: Kennedy, Biden, Kohl, Feinstein, Feingold, Schumer, Durbin, Cardin, and Whitehouse.

Biden, Durbin, Feingold, and Schumer voted NAY yesterday, and Kennedy did not vote (he’s still not back in DC after his health troubles arose). That leaves Kohl, Feinstein, Cardin, and Whitehouse.

I wonder if Cardin noticed the WaPo ad for Steny today?

FISA and most other issues are so far off the radar of the comatose American public that nothing is going to change given the delay. The media has helped to kill/neutralize any interest in FISA including the NYT and Eric Lichtblau by distorting and dumbing down the issues that have been driven home on these threads for nearly two years.

Comatose disinterested dumbasses are getting the surveillence state they don’t deserve and I would argue the reading level as to fiction, national events, politics, and non fiction has dumbed down considerably since your parents were in their prime years.

You are royally fucked by your Congress and Cboldt has chronicled it admirably, EW and Bmaz have analyzed it admirably and the commenters here and @ FDL know how fucked they are and that they can’t do a frigging thing about it.

The more you understand this egregious bill, the more it drives you up a wall.

I wonder if Kennedy will be able to return on July 8th.

We’re thinking of doing a Citizen Whip Count, but the question is — which bill.

Sounds like it should be for Dodd-Feingold-Leahy?

dugg

thanks for the link.

Yes, I should think so. Thanks for thinking of this.
What are the ACLU, PFAW, Common Cause, MoveOn.org et al saying about our next move?

Bob in HI

A strange thing to me is we have a war going on to ” start a new democracy” and save all these people from a tyrant like Saddam. Yet we somehow lost the constitution along the way. The very people that fought in WWII, Korea

Is this what our Fathers died and fought for in WWII? Where is the courage that lead us to victory over our enemies that these heroes are sitting back allowing their sacrifice to be denigrated. Why are the heroes of all our wars allowing the travesty that now is going on in the Senate as I wright this to deny Veterans benifits, elderly medicare while we move on to spend more money on a war that has bankrupted the country for us and our children.

What a sad commentary it is that as WE go forth, as the CONGRESS of the US adjourns, to celebrate the birthday of the USA we go to celebrate it demise as we lose the 4th amendment. We lost the fourth branch a long time ago, the justice Dept. 8 years ago…Happy Birthday AMERICA

Thanks for letting me vent.

Behave, the boss lady is here.

Hi, Pups!

Anyone know who the “journalist” on Randi Rhodes’ show is today? He’s saying that it’s actually a _good_ thing that the bill got cloture. Because it puts the FISA court back in charge…and because doing nothing would have let the Bush Admin continue to spy on Americans with impunity. Worse, Randi was agreeing with him. His punchline was “you can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good…Well, this bill is only OK, but you can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the OK.”

WTF? Did I miss something? I thought doing nothing would revert us to the old FISA laws from the 1970s. Or am I totally confused?

FunnyDiva

What’s the point of all this spying on us if the government folks aren’t even using what they have legally?

to stop anyone from opposing them, perchance?

Darclay,

I was trying to think of what to say, and you pretty much covered it, thanks.

OT, but watching the re-run of Countdown.

I’m sure Michelle Obama didn’t mean to diss on John Edwards, but her statement about Hillary today sure didn’t sound quite right to me.

FunnyDiva

Take a look at A pragmatist’s view on FISA, by NCrissieB, over at the Great Orange Satan.

Bob in HI

Dunno. Can we wait a day and see whether anyone supports Bingaman’s stay?

Very respectfully Pete, it’s an opportunity for the “strange bedfellows” coalition to demonstrate its political muscle going forward. Feingold/Leahy/Dodd gives us one last chance to show how close we can get to the 51 needed to strip out the retroactive immunity.

IMHO, Harry crafted the amendment stripping out retroactive immunity in part to determine how strong liberals were within the Democratic. The closer we can get to 51, before July 8, the better it positions liberals within the Democratic party for the future. Also if by some miracle, we get to 42 or 43, by July 1, suddenly we can bring a lot more pressure on the last eight or nine. Where Norm Coleman is concerned, we’ll have to depend on our conservative allies to do some of the heavy lifting.

What’s the stay about?

– The more you understand this egregious bill, the more it drives you up a wall. –

Heh. Thanks for the notice - it’s appreciated.

And yeah, watching Congress, and comparing what they say with what they do is an eye-opener. Then comparing THAT with what the media reports is still another disconnect, and finally down to the consumer of news, well, they are not being well served.

I can point to 15 or so bills that really drove me up a wall that way. FISA is one of the bigger ones, but it’s not the only.

Follow these things out of Congress and “into action,” and you’ll get even more cynical than you are now. Word to the wise, drink more bier and keep smiling.

Though T. Udall’s office told me he was undecided morning of house vote, he came through and voted against it. I was surprised Bingaman voted for cloture with him having voted against the bill in Feb. I am trying to figure out what he up to.

“…he’s up to,” even….

There are some pretty funny things though. Reid’s chronic “I’ll make the Senate stay and work on Saturday” and “Mondays will be vote days,” and assorted other threats — I think everybody in the Senate knows to blow them off.

Great phrase “to stop channeling the barnacle”; question for other posters. Are we interested in stopping the immunity or showing how strong the ‘liberal base’ is? I vote for immunity but I don’t know what the Spector amendment says and don’t understand what a ’stay’ -Bingaman’s Amendment’ actually means.
Spector is the only Republican offering an amendment and that MIGHT be a consideration for the few Republican ‘moderates’.

Dodd-Feingold-Leahy amendment to strike immunity

Even if it “only” needs 51 votes to strike immunity - there is no way we can win. I presume Obama will vote for this as will most Democrats. I hope Kennedy will be there (I read he was back working on Medicare stuff, so he might make an appearance. Unfortunately we know there are many spineless Democrats that will vote against ammendment: DiFi, Landrieu, Baucus, Conrad, Dorgan, Pryor, Reid, Jello Jay, and others. It will be nice for Obama to vote against immunity, but meaningless in the end.

McCain will not have vote for 3 whole months when this happens, but he doesn’t even need to show up since they will have all Rs + Lieberman + at least a dozen Spineless Democrats. It would be nice to at least have McCain on the record voting for immunity (on the odd chance that someone - are you listening Snuphagopolos? - could ask him about it), but unlikely.

Thanks, Bob in HI. I knew a Pup could point me in the right direction.

Man, this working full-time thing is really putting a dent in my high-information state!

FunnyDiva

I assume there’d be a hold on the suits–no immunity, but no further decisions in the case. Don’t know until when–maybe until after the IG report? So a year? Or maybe until we win a bunch new seats in November.

I would just throw this out, we may only need to get to 50. If Cheney has to cast the deciding vote, I think some Republicans and Democrats, especially the ones up for re-election, rethink their vote.

I’m going to guess that Bingaman’s amendment is a conditional stay of some sort. Perhaps stay the court proceedings, pending the results of a Congressional or OIG investigation. It avoids the risk of an adverse ruling from Judge Walker while other bodies cover up the tracks.

Specter’s amendment sucks pond water, for reasons I’ve expressed earlier. Smoke and mirrors that don’t force a ruling as to whether the TSP ran afoul of FISA. If the court finds the surveillance to have been constitutional, then the case is dismissed. There are other problems with his proposal, but that’s a big one.

Stripping Title III retroactive immunity is easy to understand. It puts the issue out as a contest between the executive and the courts, as to the application of a law that applied at the time.

Specter is all about Kabuki.. will vote against himself after making a big show about civil liberties.. Never trust the author of single bullet theory..

Sorta OT…does anyone have a link to Dodd’s speech Wednesday OTHER THAN the one on his website? For some reason, when I play it from there, it is jerky and stuttering and I can’t stand to listen to that for 35 minutes. I looked around on the ‘net and what I find is his 2007 FISA speech.

I just googled about looking for more info. Nothing there.

– Even if it “only” needs 51 votes to strike immunity –

The “strike immunity” vote on S.2248 was REJECTED Feb 12, 2008 at 11:03, on a 31-67 vote (Bayh, Carper, Conrad, Feinstein, Inouye, Johnson, Kohl, Landrieu, Lieberman, Lincoln, McCaskill, Mikulski, Nelson (FL), Nelson (NE), Pryor, Rockefeller, Salazar, Stabenow and Webb voted NAY. Clinton and Graham did not vote)

try newtonusr

ugh.. I have long since stopped being able to tolerate the sight of that little troll-prostitute. I have to kind of look the other way whenever he’s gabbing away on C-Span.

Do we have a strategy or should we put one together if we don’t (who are the key people to contact/call. which offices, which staffers, etc)?

– does anyone have a link to Dodd’s speech Wednesday –

Dodd’s speech of June 24, 2008 Pages S6082-6095

Unfortunately we can’t get to 50. Like it or not Republicans always stick together. That’s 49. Lieberman makes it an even 50. Throw in Jello Jay, DiFi, or any of the other weak Democrats (i.e. the ones that are raking in the $ from AT&T + Verizon) and they will have at least 60 votes against ammendment. At this point it is only an opportunity for Obama and other Democrats to show they have spine by voting against it. Funny thing is that, if enough Democrats vote against Feingold ammendment, some Republicans that are in trouble (Dole, Sununu, Stevens, etc.) get to vote against immunity to show their “independence” from Bush.

I will throw up on that day, but the real damage - as pointed out by Marcy yesterday - was already done. This bill is as good as law.

Funny thing is Housing bill may still die. Funny for Republicans that is.

I think strategy is what’s developing here.. I’m trying to figure out where my Senators will be during next weeks recess.. I live in a remote corner of the State but if they come anywhere close they are going to hear from me.

So few elected to represent the public have been willing to frame discussion around the scope of federal surveillance. Pretensions that current FISA legislation is all about improving mechanisms for effective foreign intelligence gathering are being used quite successfully to divert the gaze of the public from the big surveillance picture. AT&T’s comprehensive splitting of piped data to Narus-equipped NSA rooms, to cite a prime illustrative example, goes way beyond the scope of FISA—as AT&T and George W. Bush knew from the beginning as well as anybody.

Maybe we should call for all Dems to swear of Telecom contribution this yea.. They won’t do it, but it lets them know we are going to be watching not only what they have already received but just how much more they will get after immunity passes and the constitution burn..

Another semi twist for an ad or talking point… They outlawed flag burning so they burn the constitution instead!

Well, time to limber up the committees of correspondence and do it all over again. Independence, that is. Should get us a century or so (global warming permitting) before we get another attack of barnacles, if those @#$%^&*(s in DC don’t nuke Iran first and kill everyone that way.

I think we ought to try asking these crappy senators what kind of flag we should fly after they pass this: the flag of the House of Cheney (white dollar signs on a field of green; if you have to ask, you can’t afford it) or the skull-and-crossbones, because we’ll be operating without benefit of law. (Hell, yes, I want to shock them! Shock is about the only way to get through to them any more.)

Similarly, today’s unexpected delay gives us time to shift the political dynamic in a more reasonable direction. The best hope lies in the amendments that will be introduced before the final vote on the bill. One, championed by Senators Dodd and Feingold, would strip immunity provisions entirely. Another, from New Mexico Senator Bingaman, would delay implementation of the immunity provisions until after Congress had the benefit of the Inspectors General report on the President’s surveillance program that is required by the bill.

EFF

Draft Amendment [Specter]

In section 802(b) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as added by section 201 of the Act, strike paragraph (1) and insert the following:

“(1) REVIEW OF CERTIFICATIONS.–

“(A) IN GENERAL.–Except as provided in subparagraph (B), a certification under subsection (a) shall be given effect unless the court finds that such certification is not supported by substantial evidence provided to the court pursuant to this section.

“(B) COVERED CIVIL ACTIONS.–In a covered civil action relating to assistance alleged to have been provided in connection with an intelligence activity involving communications that was authorized by the President during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007, a certification under subsection (a) shall be given effect unless the court–

“(i) finds that such certification is not supported by substantial evidence provided to the court pursuant to this section; or

“(ii) determines that the assistance provided by the applicable electronic communication service provider was unconstitutional.

To get anywhere, we need to get Obama on board, and conventional beltway wisdom (possible oxymoron) is that getting attacked by the left is good for him — it enhances his credentials as a “centrist.” Some think that he might be shamed into doing the right thing. But I expect that he doesn’t do shame either.

I hope so, and I hope he has an atypical course for his neuroblastoma, and I hope he thrives for many years but none of that is gonna make a difference. This is a Congress looking out for their self interest, and their self interest alone their power, and their entitlement and they have done a magnificent job in supporting Bush, Cheney, Addington, and “Yoo want what when ’cause ah cain’t talk about thet” as you saw today at the hearings.

It is impossible for me to tell the difference between the Democrats in Congress and the Republicans in Congress.

And notice that Hillary Norma Rae Clinton continues to take her victory laps, horde her predominantly illicit hundred plus million dollar fortune, and can’t be bothered with her only day job which is to be on the Senate floor and in her office representing her constituents.

Clinton for reasons bizarre has not returned to the Senate.

Rather than use her vast fortune to pay off a tiny fraction of it, 11 million, she is asking Obama contributerRs to pay her debts so she can continue living as the Norma Rae petulant one hundred million plus airess that she is.

Unfrigging believable.

No doubt everyone at FDL is flocking to help pay Hillary’s debt so she can continue to live as the hundredmillionariess she is.

Sorry, I meant the video. I can read the speech on Dodd’s website — and I have read part of it — but I would really like to hear it.

Shock is a must.. we’re desperate, why pretend otherwise when it comes to messaging. GOPers when with it every time.

here’s another play on timely themes:

In July of 2008, The United States Senate authored the Declaration Of Impotence /s

That was pretty much KO’s take on it tonight.

The most appropriate count Jane, would be a “citizen whupp ass count” cause everyone’s ass in this country has been whupped and schtupped completely by the Democrats in the House and the Seante coverying their asses and the Republican asses in this farce of a bill.

Welcome to Surveillance America–you and all your communications in the purvey of a panoply of agencies some known and some unknown for ever.

Yup. Olbermann has gone over to the Villagers: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....index.html

Wish we could find out all the money and all the ties these wimpy Dems like reid pelosi feinstein are being paid to do this crap. But then again it could just be all those wiretaps actually turned up things..

All your communications are belong to us

I would just like to emphasize that in many major newspapers, FISA warranted three sentences of one paragraph which reported that a FISA bill passed the House and will soon pass the Senate, and it makes Bushco delighted.

All is well with the country, an SUV or two in every garage, no ecomonic problems, and the lawn is mowed with the pickett fences or whatever the hell brightly painted.

The Senate is revving up to further screw up medical care in the next couple days if they didn’t get it done late this evening.

Let’s not forget the Democratic candidate’s recent participation in that effort.

Well, there’s opportunity to apply some timely Independence language to the issues. As I recently posted on another thread, when revisiting the Declaration of Independence I was particularly struck by the phrase “a long train of abuses and usurpations”.

I went to the countdown.msnbc.com website and left a comment for KO’s stance. I was the first commenter, which may mean that it isn’t drawing much attention, or that people aren’t accustomed to looking at the website. Glenn’s article has well over 400 comments.

Maybe its time to break up some of these Telecoms and news outlets. Divest divest divest

I have hardly forgotten Obama’s stance if that’s what you’re referring to and commented on it emphatically on EW’s previous blogs analyzing the FISA bill.

If there weren’t pcs/macs on every desktop, and I just had to depend on newspapers instead of the blogosphere/netroots, I wouldn’t have a clue about so many of these catastrophies.

As to Obama’s pathetic response to FISA, however, there has never been a doubt that he was the best candidate of those available once Dodd and Biden were out so early thanks to the DNC Rules.

I think anyone fondly contemplating that their will be criminal prosecutions of the Telcoms/Comcoms for illegal wiretapping by Obama justice is dreaming on.

If you’re in the DC area, you can look forward to a rise in deaths from hand guns as well as robberys and breakins to steal guns. Whata great country where the NRA now sees momentum to file suit to eliminate gun background checks, and in some cities, guns that are not concealed are allowed on rail and buses.

I love it when the Scalia/Alito/Roberts/Thomas/Kennedy swinging as far to the right as possible fan boys and girls bitch about activist judges when they perceive an adverse opinion, but glow when Scalia does his activist channeling of the framers’ intent.

Thanks Cboldt for the Spector amendment which I read as useless.
Came across this and encourage all who haven’t joined this group to join and sound off:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....09410.html

Thanks for the response.

White supremacy used to be legal. Women, native American tribes, descendants of the slaves, and other groups have routinely been denied access to the Fourth Amendment.

Governments at all levels have insulated corporations from the legal consequences of their actions. See the Pinkerton Detective Agnecy against the James Younger gang for an excellent parallel. IANAL and ‘ll accept that this FISA abomination may be more explicitly heinous than previous legal atrocities.

I also don’t want to dilute the absolute seriousness of what is being done to the Constitution or our responsibilities to fight it in a non-violent way.

If we could get to 46 or 47 on an amendment to strip out retroactive immunity, it would be an important sign of strength to Democrats and Republicans.

I can’t believe the number of people whom I respect that have gone over to the dark side on this FISA stuff:
– Obama, whom we’ve discussed.
– Sheldon Whitehouse: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...../71/541992
– Kieth Olbermann: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....index.html

I had judged each of them to be smart, sane, principled people. What the hell happened. Did they drink RNC cool aid?

Here is the letter I got from Feinstein re her position on FISA.
Sorry to take up so much space, but it shows what we’re up against, and how she’s pulling the wool over the eyes of the people.
Her take on the thing is that telecoms did the right thing considering 911.

“I write this in response to your communication indicating your concerns on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) now before the Senate. This bill has passed the House of Representatives.

This legislation contains multiple sections, including one that deals specifically with liability for telecommunications companies. However, the primary intent to this new bill is to modernize our intelligence gathering capacity. The technology and communications industries have seen vast changes in the past thirty years since FISA was first written in 1978. This has changed the way surveillance is conducted, and the original law cannot adequately address these procedures. This is precisely why FISA needs to be modernized.

It is important to understand the consequences if the Senate does not pass this bill. We would either have to extend the temporary surveillance bill passed last August - which should not happen - or allow surveillance on certain foreign targets to expire, which would lay the Nation bare and decrease our ability to identify and protect against terrorist threats. Neither of these options is acceptable.

I strongly believe that this bill is substantially better than the version the Senate passed in February 2008, which I opposed. It is also a major improvement from the Protect America Act that passed in August 2007, which had few privacy protections and was never intended to be a permanent solution. This bill:

οIncludes provisions I authored that make clear that FISA is the exclusive (or only) authority for conducting surveillance inside the United States. This is crucial as it requires that all future Presidents must act only within the law. FISA would be the only legal authority for conducting surveillance on Americans for intelligence purposes, and only legislation that specifically provides wiretapping authority in the future would be an exception to FISA.

οRequires the government to obtain a warrant before surveillance can begin. This applies to all Americans - anywhere in the world. The Protect America Act allowed surveillance for up to six months before getting a warrant. This bill ends all warrantless surveillance of U.S. persons. In this sense it is precedent setting.

οBans reverse targeting, which was a concern under the Protect America Act. Reverse targeting would allow the government to collect the contents of telephone calls and e-mails of an American by conducting surveillance on the people with whom they communicate. This is prohibited in this bill.

οRequires that the government implement procedures approved by the Court for minimization. If an American’s communication is incidentally caught up in electronic surveillance while the Government is targeting someone else, minimization protects that person’s private information. This has been a hallmark of FISA for 30 years, but court review and approval of minimization procedures was not included in the Protect America Act. It is here.

οRequires the government to receive a warrant to conduct surveillance on an American outside of the United States. This means that Americans’ privacy rights are protected everywhere around the world. A court warrant has never been required outside the United States before; this would be the strongest protection ever.

I understand your concern regarding Title II of this bill, which creates a process that may result in immunity for telecommunications companies that are alleged to have provided assistance to the Government. I agree that this is not the best approach to the current legal challenges to these companies. Earlier this year, I pushed an amendment that would require court review of the legality of these companies’ alleged actions. Under my proposal, cases against the companies would only be dismissed if the Court found that they acted legally. I continue to believe this is the right approach.

There may be amendments offered to the FISA legislation to strip or modify the telecom immunity provisions. Know that I will support any that I believe improve the current bill.

Bottom line: this FISA legislation, while not perfect, would bring intelligence activities back under U.S. law. It provides significant improvement in oversight and accountability of our intelligence collection programs while still giving the intelligence community the tools needed to keep our Nation safe. And, it provides the strongest privacy protections to U.S. persons in history.

In conclusion, I have served on the Intelligence Committee for seven years and I take the responsibility extremely seriously. If there is no bill, our Nation goes bare in mid-August, unless the Protect America Act, which does not offer, even remotely, the privacy protections for U.S. persons that are included in this bill, is extended. Additionally, the President - any President - cannot enact a program outside of this law in the future.

I hope this helps you understand my concerns. “

BTW, does Keith Olbermann still have an email address? It’s sure not ovious on the new Countdown website…

FunnyD

countdown@msnbc.com

That’s just an iteration of what she said on the floor of the Senate; now she is saying ““I remember both Justice Roberts and Justice Alito sitting in front of us and indicating how they would respect stare decisis and precedent — and this decision takes down 70 years of precedent,” Feinstein said during a business meeting of the Senate Judiciary Committee.”

So ask her -fax,email/call- now that she sees she has been lied to suuport the Dodd/Feingold/Leahy amendment.

Olbermann and Congress live in a “retail” world.

They understand that when the next terrorist attack hits, the neocons will paint anyone who voted against this abomination as a limousine liberal, who could have prevented the attack had they not been so soft on terror.

Will do.