Skdadl asked, with due skepticism, whether Mukasey would ever hand over the Bush and Cheney transcripts. I was thinking about just that on my walk with McCaffrey the MilleniaLab. Here's how I think--if HJC were to play it correctly--it might play out.
In his letter to Mukasey, Waxman used McClellan's public statements to demonstrate the need to release the transcripts and FBI reports.
New revelations by fonner White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan raise additional questions about the actions of the President and the Vice President. Mr. McClellan has stated that "[t]he President and Vice President directed me to go out there and exonerate Scooter Libby." He has also asserted that "the top White House officials who knew the truth including Rove, Libby, and possibly Vice President Cheney - allowed me, even encouraged me, to repeat a lie." It would be a major breach of trust if the Vice President personally directed Mr. McClellan to mislead the public.
In his FBI interview, Mr. McClellan told the FBI about discussions he had with the President and the Vice President. These passages, however, were redacted from the copies made available to the Committee. Similar passages were also redacted from other interviews. There are no sound reasons for you to withhold the interviews with the President and the Vice President from the Committee or to redact passages like Mr. McClellan's discussions with the President and the Vice President. [my emphasis]
Now, as I understand it, Mukasey didn't actually turn over the transcripts themselves to the Oversight Committee--he just let them look at the reports. Nevertheless, some smart staffer on Waxman's committee must have notes of the context of the redactions in McClellan's FBI reports.
So the first thing HJC needs to do is get a copy of the notes that staffer took.
Then, they should address a question to Scottie that goes something like this:
Mr. McClellan, In the course of your interview with the FBI on November XX, John Eckenrode asked you about your discussions with Bush and Cheney regarding the Plame leak. Can you tell us what you said in response?
Now, there's something odd I've been puzzling over. We know from Waxman's letter that there are clear references to Bush and Cheney in McClellan's FBI interview report. But in his book, McClellen describes being asked in the grand jury, for the first time, about Bush's exoneration of Rove.
After hearing the second new question, I was momentarily taken aback. Zeidenberg asked if it was true the president told me in the Oval Office that Karl Rove told him he was not involved? It was the first time I'd been asked about something the president knew or said. Since the president had not been questioned yet, I knew that Andy must have discussed it with investigators at some earlier point. [my emphasis]
There are several possible explanations for this. Perhaps McClellan didn't remember he had said something to the FBI earlier (doubtful). Perhaps the FBI questions focused primarily on Cheney, even, perhaps, asking whether McClellan knew that Cheney had first learned of Plame's identity. Perhaps they asked McClellan about his Libby exoneration, but not his Rove exoneration. Or perhaps those FBI questions about Bush and Cheney were about another subject altogether.
In any case, some smart Congressman on HJC needs to walk McClellan through his FBI interview not--as John Dean would have it--because there's much we don't know in there, but because we want to be able to demonstrate that Mukasey is redacting information directly pertaining to Bush and Cheney's cover-up of the leak of Plame's identity.
At the same time, I would hope, another smart Congressman on HJC will be entering the abundant circumstantial evidence that Cheney ordered Libby to leak Plame's identity into the Congressional Record.
And then, having demonstrated in a forum with a legal record that 1) Mukasey redacted information from McClellan's FBI report that pertains to Bush and Cheney's cover-up of the leak and/or their knowledge of Plame's identity, and 2) circumstantial evidence indicates that Cheney ordered the leak of Plame's identity, John Conyers sits down and writes a letter:
Dear Michael "No, I won't investigate torture" Mukasey:
I understand my colleague Henry Waxman has been nagging you for FBI 302s and Bush and Cheney transcripts since last December. Since you have been unresponsive to Waxman's requests, I can only assume you refuse to turn over selected materials because you deem them unrelated to the Oversight Committee's investigation into White House treatment of classified information. In a hearing reviewing new revelations from Scott McClellan about the obstruction of the CIA Leak investigation within the White House, we have determined that there is credible evidence of such obstruction. We have reason to believe that the materials that you have refused to turn over to Congressman Waxman are directly relevant to our investigation of obstruction of a criminal investigation.
Having reviewed with Mr. McClellan the content of his FBI report, we have reason to believe that those redactions were made solely to hide clear evidence of Bush and Cheney's role in this obstruction. We believe those redactions say, "Cheney called Bush and convinced him to ask me to make a public exoneration of Libby." That is, the redacted material indicates that the Vice President and President interceded--after being officially informed of a criminal investigation--to clear a chief suspect's name, one who had been ordered by the Vice President to leak the information in question.
Since this material is central to our investigation and the withholding of this information would constitute further obstruction, I'm sure you see the importance of turning over that information to the House Judiciary Committee.
We believe those materials contain evidence of a potential crime--a crime of the magnitude that Congress is constitutionally empowered to investigate, particularly where the President or Vice President may be involved. As SCOTUS ruled in United States v. Nixon, the Executive Branch cannot withhold evidence of criminal behavior. Given that we are investigating whether obstruction did nor did not occur, we would consider anyone who withheld such information from the Committee to be party to the crime. Please provide us with hard copies of those documents by June 28.
Love, John Conyers
Of course, all this presumes that Congress is willing to at least pretend that they are constitutionally authorized--indeed, even obliged--to investigate such abuses of power. Which is a pretty big presumption, I know. But it seems that, if they really want to, they can tell Mukasey he either turns over the materials or he commits an act that--just seven months before a new AG comes in--appears to be criminal obstruction.
Wishful thinking, I know.
Update: Fixed abundant typos per Funnydiva.
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Thanks ew.
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EW!!!1!!1!!!
I hope Conyers and HJC (well, their staffers) are reading this.
If I might put on my editor hat for a moment:
“Skdadl asked, with due skepticism, that Mukasey”
(whether?)
“We believe those materials contain evidence of a potential crime–a crime of the magnitude that Congress is constitutionally empowered to conduct in the case of”
(investigate? conduct investigations?)
Thanks for your response to John Dean and for the Timmeh thread, too.
Funny-Hussein-Diva
Jeebus. It’s as if I hadn’t even reviewed the damn thing!! Thanks muchly.
Hi EW,
It seems to me the real problem with your suggestion of how HJC can get Mukasey to turn over the transcripts is that the release of those records and (presumably) direct evidence of Cheney/Bush criminality would only highlight the Democratic Leadership’s big problem.
A growing majority of the electorate is quite aware that the Bush Administration appears guilty of several major crimes, but Congress doesn’t want to risk its chances of a landslide election by drawing too much attention to how well they’ve enabled the Boy King.
If Conyers successfully puts the screws to Mukasey and uncovers even more, convincing evidence of a serious, impeachable offense do you think Pelosi/Hoyer/Reid will throw up their hands and let loose the dogs of Whitehouse, Wexler, Fiengold, et al?
I ask b/c I really don’t see it. I see the Scotty hearings as another attempt to mollify us DFH’s while The Democratic Leadership tries to “whistle past the graveyard”.
Unfortunately, when it comes to separation of powers and oversight, you are correct, we have a pro forma Congress. Conyers writes a good memo; perhaps he should retire and become an English Professor.
Slightly O/T I read on a blog, the secretor of unknown consequences raising its ugly head, in that our next Prez, hopefully Obama, will have the same level of power that Bushco was given/took. I would hope, if it’s Obama, he’d do some down and dirty investigations, executive orders, and unilaterally clean house of entrenched Bushies. After getting our Republic back in balance, he’d of course renounce these tyrannical powers and demand legislation to close the loophole Bushco swam through. I wish.
I would change “Love, John Conyers” to “Hugs, John Conyers”, as this would more clearly demonstrate the good working relationship between Conyers and Mukasey.
i agree with tross.. thanks for all your work emptywheel.. i read this site but post very infrequently…
Hey! Where’s my spew alert! It’s still coffee hour you know…
Me, too. I lurk here just about everyday, but my comments are rare. Good to see someone else de-lurking.
Thanks for both of you for posting. The more the merrier.
OT - McClatchey today has come out with a series of articles as part of a detainee review project.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/hom.....38772.html
The sidebar on the link has links to a whole series of articles they have posted. Real journalism.
OMG, I’m so glad it’s a Sunday.
And two lurkers de-lurk!
More later… looks like I’ll get in a long cycle ride in front of the monitor today; still have to catch up on the McClellan posts from last week.
Thanks again, EW!
(massaccio will just have to have a post-vacation-vacation when he gets back Stateside in order to catch up ;-))
Agree–just reading it now.
Well, if we’re all going to stick our noses over the transom this morning, hello all!
FWIW, this has been going on for almost five years now.
When Bush commuted Libby’s sentence, he basically told the entire US population to take a flying f*ck at a rolling donut.
Hoyer, Pelosi, and Reid are asking millions of us to accept that the solution to criminal conspiracy for treason in a time of war is to vote for Dems.
And I’m calling bullshit.
There are times when simply voting jerks out of office is enough to address the damage they’ve caused.
Unfortunately, the problems in this case are so outrageous that ‘an election’ is not an adequate solution to address the problems created by criminal conspiracy and treason.
Hey de-lurk away. I am truly a blue collar peasant and once in a while I get my ass kicked here for seemingly stupid statements and I have witnessed some of what I believe to be discrimination, but generally a great deal of patience with my lack of knowledge about the law and have learned a great deal and developed more respect for the high and fair minded intentions of many of the lawyers and people in the know at this site.
For all the delurkers, if I may be so bold, as an on again off again commenter I would suggest the following. Don’t be afraid to chime in at the risk of making a fool of yourselves. Though I am sure the risks for you are low I can vouch for the fact that the consequences of doing so are bearable while the value of kaleidoscopic insight, great.
Does anyone think that Schumer, Feinstein and the other Democrats who voted for Mukasey knew that they were throwing up very serious roadblocks for Justice?
If Mukasey refuses to hand over the documents can Congress throw his ass in jail? I mean I know it will not happen…but can they do it legally?
Based on what Scottie has revealed in his book will anybody else be called into testify? Fleisher, Hannah etc?
I would add a last sentence as just a nice little tidy parting shot a millimeter above his bow.
Just because, well, because it is true.
You mean this is too subtle for the top law enforcement officer (and a former judge) in the country:
That’s what I was wondering about yesterday. What are the new questions and who needs to be asked? Also I had asked about Russert, have we lost any potential information with his passing?
Ditto that.
Believe me, from personal experience, “stupid questions” or “stupid statements” are often extremely important to setting the right work in motion. They may give voice to the unspoken that must be said in order to align our efforts.
If you knew that asking the “stupid question” could change the fate of the world for the better, wouldn’t you ask it? Unfortunately we can’t know the outcome until some time after the question has set answers in motion — don’t hold back on that account, ask away.
And since we are all of us going down a path untrodden, with no sign posts except for the occasional bent twig that guides like EW can see, there really are no “stupid questions.” De-lurk and ask, or chime in some other way.
Ahem, well sometimes I am not particularly subtle. Actually, I think that may have been pointed out a couple of comments back, and for that I apologize; however I call em as I see em. In answer to your question, yep I think Mukasey would probably get it from your language; my thought was to leave no uncertain terms, nor any question, to anybody (read mindless media) what the scope and stakes are. I fully realize that neither your subtle advisory, much less my blatant one, will likely make the cut.
What Rayne (& JThomason) said.
I know several folks who lurk regularly here, & hey, train’s on the platform. “Welcome Aboard.”
Fine, except you got the order wrong. First you renounce the tyrannical powers, then you clean house, using the rule of law as your broom.
Doing it in the order you listed never, ever works. It’s one of the classic mistakes, a clear cut example of exactly the sort of hubris that gets us into these messes.
– MarkusQ
That’s a really important point. Thankfully, I had finished my morning java and had moved on to green tea.
OT — does it say something about our society that 56,000 people wrote essays as part of the competition process to play in a foursome with a football star, a media personality and a pop rock star at Torrey Pines?
Why can’t we muster 56,000 people writing to Conyers that he should threaten to impeach Mukasey?
And I want to ditto Rayne. If stupid questions were a barrier, I would have been ejected from Planet Emptywheel about the second I touched down. Also, part of the wonderful service of this site is that it gets the facts out and answers questions, from the brilliant and complex to the simple and obvious. But if you have a question, there may be a thousand other people with the same question or area that needs clarification. What we do here is not just for us, it is about you and everybody. The better informed and more clear that each and all of are, the better we can go forth into our individual societies and convey the knowledge and information to others, and them onto others successively. That is what it is going to take to win this battle, because the media are not doing it.
The Democrats seem to have convinced themselves that politics is like making sausage: the public would rather not know too much about it. I think Upton Sinclair proved them wrong, oh, a hundred years ago.
The Democrats’ position is self-serving, self-perpetuating and self-abusive. Many Democrats agree with this President. They see nothing wrong in what he’s done; some of them aided and abetted the President in doing it. But now that the pendulum is swinging away from CheneyBush, they aren’t so sure they want their prior support for Bush known or used against them. Others are afraid of any controversy. (Why, then, are they in politics?) Still others are afraid they can’t compete with the Rovian slime machine, or think doing so will distract from their search for power or getting things done. (What would that be if not this?).
I guess none of them read the polls. Americans are desperate for the Democrats to stand up to Bush’s lawlessness, his incompetence, his devotion only to the haves and the have mores. Perhaps it’s that most of them are now like the “journalists” who cover them. They’re too rich, fat and happy and don’t want to rock the boat. Which means that though they may gain the White House, they won’t bother using those paddle thingies to take it anywhere.
Well, let’s see if we can make the wind blow and the current move to remind them that they are public servants on the public payroll. Investigating and stopping Bush’s abusive and illegal behavior is precisely what they have been elected to do, along with actually running government well instead of pretending it’s only purpose is to give them jobs and enrich their friends.
Food for thought about why treating Democrats with kid gloves in hopes that they gain the White House - and do something - might not be a good idea. That might simply be another expression of the tyranny of low expectations (speaking of many CongressCritters, but not Sen. Obama):
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Boy howdy. Pelosi and Hoyer won’t even breathe the word impeachment because it would interfere with their legislative goals. And what exactly is it that would be so interfered with? Screwing us on the Bush/Cheney wet dream FISA Amendment? Thanks for that fucktards. If the time and effort that has been expended on schlepping through said Bush/Cheney FISA dream had been placed on answering the questions posed in this and the previous post, we would be far better off.
About that needless FISA capitulation by the Democratic Party’s “leadership”. Expect it to happen no later than the Fourth of July weekend, when everyone will be enjoying McSenile’s Ribs:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Glen is correct, the nature of the bill has been crystal clear for over a week now actually. I think they will start the legislative process on it next week actually.
Thanks Leen,
I have a law degree and am a practicing paralegal (will be taking the bar in ‘09), but I am in awe of EW and the comments here. I love coming to this site and soaking up the knowledge, but I usually learn so much from reading that I never want to waste time commenting.
I’m now reading Scotty’s book, so I’ll probably have a lot to say pretty soon.
Man, there is still time for you; flee to a sane profession while you still can! Seriously, never be shy here, it is a tough, but very good group and very accepting.
The closest I’ve come to being in the legal profession was typing labor arbitration opinions back in the days before personal computers. But like you, “I love coming to this site and soaking up the knowledge, but I usually learn so much from reading that I never want to waste time commenting.” Thanks to EW for providing this rich forum of ideas and to those who provide such good questions as well as good answers.
EW, your post nails it…ummm…nails Mukasey. Since when is it his job to protect Bush and Cheney from Congress? That would be Addington etal’s job.
Worse than Gonzo. He is even more blatant in the obstruction of the investigation into what is clearly a crime.
As I’ve said before, the man has had a successful career…why would he want to go down in history linked to these people this way. Dumb move Mukasey.
HA! I’m actually circling back to the law after becoming an entrepreneur after law school. Sanity seems to have eluded me quite a while ago. Right around the time I decided to chuck a legal career for a career in business.
In any case, I figure regular reading here should help me along the way as I start the process of turning back on my legal synapses.
I’ll go one further, I think that given the nature of his position as head of the DOJ, he not only doesn’t have a duty to protect Bush, Cheney et al., he has an affirmative duty, in light of the clear prima facie case, to see the truth disclosed.
Heh, given that, I think you are probably in a decent place then, having a good normal framework underneath you before delving into the churning waters of law. That should serve you very well. If there is anything I can help with, don’t hesitate to ask.
Boy, LS, I think that too, every word of it. I cannot figure that man out. That he seems to be worlds more competent than Gonzales just makes the question more obvious: why did he do this?
Brilliant post, EW. Every time I think that I have grasped what’s going on, you go one layer deeper. It’s like having a new Le Carré to read so many days here, when it isn’t one of the Graves (heinous imperial corruption and depravity) days.
Friday is the one day this week that I absolutely have to be away from the machine, and I am so frustrated. For hours I will be among people who won’t have a clue about what I’ll be babbling on about. I’m thinking of dreaming up a diplomatic illness, although I may have worn out that ruse by now.
Not without frequent virtual feedings of English real ale, bourbon and branch water, and good French wine.
I keep wondering how much of ‘off the table’ is the result of Hoyer whispering in Pelosi’s ear that the public won’t support impeachment, notwithstanding all our letters, e-mails, faxes, and phonecalls.
I think investigating Hoyer might be worthwhile.
You know, I have always admired cboldt’s legal reasoning. And here is a prime example of why that is; found deep in the comments from a few threads back.
Spot on I would say.
EW, one more wee typo as it seems fonner should be former.
I’m guessing that the usual suspect of copying and pasting from a PDF is to blame. I know that’s exactly what it did when I tried it.
Somebody needs to learn Adobey how to spel. *g*
“blue collar”??? geez, Leen, I look for your comments while I lurk away… There are a lot of really intelligent people here. You’re one of them. If I wanted to hear all the variations possible on one person’s opinion (Darth’s), I’d watch something like Faux Noise. 8^)
And this means that at a minimum, Junya, Scottie and Andy were all physically present when Junya directed Scottie to exonerate Turdblossom.
I think Conyers really, really needs to have Andy Card come on down!
Call in with an “upset stomach”…they won’t ask for the details…*g*…hee, hee.
It’s my understanding that Democratic (and also GOP) leaderships in Congress have orientation sessions shortly after the elections for the new members during which they are cajoled and intimidated into meekly following the leadership. Some prominent progressives in Congress (e.g. Waxman, Wexler in the House, Feingold in the Senate) should contact the progressive candidates for open or GOP-held seats so as to build a progressive network among them prior to the election and organize a progressive caucus. That might be a means of exerting some influence.
Of course, this is a view from Flyoverland and is probably floated in ignorance of the realities inside the Beltway.
That was exactly my thought when I read that. Not only that…the FBI stuff says “discussion(s)” with W and Dick….that is pleural and it is not just someone telling you something…there was back and forth on more than one occasion.
Thanks. Although I say “blue collar” in a proud way. Not formally educated but have been able to direct three daughters that way and that has not been easy.
Think it is important to mix up the make up of the meeting of the minds. Ask those that know the law like the backside of their hands to put it in lay terms so that those of us out here who are very aware that the severity of the crime should be matched to the severity of the punishment can attempt to make some sense of the many Justice Systems in our country. You know the Justice system that folks who are connected can snake themselves through and not pay a price (Plame outing, WMD lies etc) and the laws for the rest of us.
I have not been able to just “get used to it” as of yet.
Where is Andy?
When Murtha was bumped due to ??? for Hoyer I wondered what was up?
Pelosi is not reading the signs of anger in the bingo halls, V.F.W’s, Moose lodges and nursing homes across the nation. People are pissed and wondering when the Democrats will really show some spine.
She needs to visit some of these places instead of standing where Hoyer and Emmanuelle can whisper in her ear.
Could that be a plan…I know I am too hopeful and naive. Sure would be something to witness the very same “unitary executive powers” be used to bite these thugs in the ass.
Except it wasn’t hubris that allowed Cheney/Bush to grab the powers being wielded: Cheney and Rummy have worked decades to gain unitary executive powers and once gained, what Prez. would give it back.
Hopefully, Obama, and before he joined them in making the Constitution quaintly obsolete.
Still Googling, but no sign of him just yet.
Last I saw of him, he was being booed off the stage at the commencement ceremonies of UMass, Amherst. (There are YouTubes; just search Andrew Card.) Heh. Memories of my misspent youth.
“the man has had a successful career…why would he want to go down in history linked to these people this way”
I dont know enough about his pre-judicial [?] career to feel comfortable commenting on that perception of success or what caused it, but looking at nothing more than how he conducted the court oversight of the Padilla investigation suggests he ‘earned respect’ by showing he could hold his Kool Aid & still stay on message- & as such ‘talent’ worked for every single one of the Gang of 4 in the SCOTUS- that earned him the benefit of some dubious notion of doubt among …well- just enough Dems on the HJC.
So the question is not so much: Why Mukasey would want to be linked to “these people”…as its: How do these people keep getting away with this?
George Tenet stated on national MSM television “We Do Not Torture”! The white house was good with that and wasn’t Scotty the white house spin doc at the time? Naomi Klien and the International Human Rights tribunals have documented the torture of hundreds of thousands of Latin American citizens. As well, iraqis have been systematically tortured using the CIA book of techniques called Kubark to wipe their minds into a tabla raza primarily with electric shock and water boarding.
Only inhumane people would tolerate this, those being ourselves as We The People. Are we letting our elected representatives obfuscate and allow the tools of Big Corp[oration to walk? Is it ok with the commentors and readers of this post? If it is OK then expect us all to live under that threat.
Furiously working on his memoirs, I’d imagine.
I’ve been fretting on these threads for months why Conyers (and Waxman as well) don’t subpoena interviews/FBI 302s of tBush, Cheney, Rove, Martin, Rove and any/all other WH employees, NBC employees (including all Russert’s contradictory interviews), Time, and Newsweek employees–that’d include Viveca Novak, Satan Novak, and Matt Cooper (Mr. Mandy Grunwald–will my wife ever collect the more than $700,000 Clinton owes Grunwald Communications so we can clothe the kid, school the kid, send the kid to college, get the house in Nantucket, and eat dinner the way Washington elitsia are accustomed to?).
When Mukasey refuses to produce them they should throw the little prick Mukasey who tried to make medical diagnoses on inmates in his courtroom from the SDNY bench with no training into a closet after invoking inherent contempt.
Conyers and Wasman move with the speed of an amputated snail.
“Former White House Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card, Jr. said for the first time yesterday that he resigned from the Bush administration last year in part because “the president needed for me to leave, and the administration needed to have me leave.”
““It’s often the case that someone gets put off as the sacrificial lamb, when the president needs to show something, that he’s taking action,” she said.
“There is so much more myth about [the White House Iraq Group] than there is reality,” he said.
“According to Card, the group’s role was to present information to the public consistent with Bush’s stance on Iraq by coordinating information between national security groups including the Department of Defense, the CIA, and the State Department.
“Doesn’t it make sense to get together to say, ‘Okay, let’s not put press releases out on the same day that say things that aren’t consistent with the direction that the president has said we’re heading in? So let’s coordinate it,’” he said of the group’s rationale.”
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=520408
Anyone else notice the “language”…such as “the president needed for me to leave, and the administration needed to have me leave”, and “sacrificial”…brings to mind Libby’s note.
Needed for me to leave…sounds similar to the reports that Rove was told in the Church that the President “needed” him to leave…
McClellan, Rove, and Card. All three needed to leave.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Currently, Mr. Card is a senior counselor at the global public relations firm Fleischman-Hillard, serving on the international advisory board. He serves on the board of directors at Union Pacific Corporation. Mr. Card is also consulting for PBS on a documentary about the first 100 days of the new presidential administration set to air in Fall 2009.
Wiki reports “He currently serves on the Board of Directors of Union Pacific Railroad.”
Just the normal everyday corporate welfare doled out to members of the ruling class who ain’t employable on their own merits.
And in railroad parlance, I’d guess that would make him a free-loader.
Thanks for the lead, skdadl. Most amazing video of the honors graduates filing in with “
Card” red circle and slash signs pinned to their gowns, sleeves, mortarboards. One vid is of a (presumed) local TV report. The newscaster and reporter’s words were actually startling in their clarity. It was definitely not from a local Faux Noise station.Were you amongst those marchers?
Bravo..its the rule of law stupid not the economy. The dems are about politics not “The rule of Law”. MarkusQ has it we are a nation founded on law as a protection from the tyranny we sought to defeat.
While I agree in the distinction between a formal declassification and a covert leak is it really necessary to delve into this speculation and indulge this distinction. Do I remember correctly from what I have seen here that Fitzgerald who had access to the statements and interviews of Bush and Cheney said Plame’s identity as a CIA operative was classified and so did Gen. Hayden? If an insta-declassification scheme had been afoot wouldn’t these statements been more reserved? And if an unquestionable declassification defense were available why would Fitzgerald have taken the trouble to suggest there is a “cloud” over the Vice-Presidency in his presser after the Libby verdict?
Ms E Wheel-
On the thrust of your post here IE your suggested course of action for Chairperson Conyers to gain unredacted [effectively not classified] transcripts of the various witnesses from the inner circle of this Hellish White House, I get the impression that your strategy sets aside the unsworn statements of the two crime bosses- & so implies that Conyers ought to engage in a chess match with Mukasey. I dont see the basis for assuming that the lawyer & congressman Conyers is a better chess player than the lawyer & former judge Mukasey- & tho Conyers has on his side the WAXMAN- an indisputable grandmaster- firstly theres a critical difference between advising & helping out on the one hand versus doing it yourself- & secondly its not as if Mukasey is all by his lonesome on his side- & thirdly Mukasey himself is not a free agent: hes answerable up the ladder to Fielding & theoretically then to Bush- which means to the law firm of Fielding & Addington acting on instructions from Cheney. Viewed as such one recalls why the gold medal the USA hockey lads won in the 1980 Olympics ranks so highly on any rational list of sports miracles.
freep could put this better than I can: If Conyers wants all this radioactive material from Mukasey he will have to pry it from the latter’s cold dead hands. No matter how one parses it: giving up the impeachment tool has consequences - & were looking at them.
I am right with you on the lack of reservation to those two assertions - but may I humbly suggest the critical issues of how things get classified & unclassified & the timing of the same.
In other words: it depends on what the meaning of the word “was” was.
Oh, no, although I would have loved to be there.
When you see how many of those kids were willing to do that on their commencement day, it’s really impressive, isn’t it? That was a big demo. It makes you realize that the anger isn’t just ours. There are a lot more angry people — and especially younger people — than the msm seem to have noticed or credited yet.
Those are all good questions. To me, however, in some regards, for the purpose instantly at hand, it doesn’t matter. As EW has cogently demonstrated, there is royal duplicity at hand irrespective of which way the truth on that plays out in the end. The goal right now, since we don’t know how it went down for sure, is simply to demonstrate that the acts were of a questionable, and potentially traitorous, nature either way and that there has been overt fraud and deception that has materially obstructed justice either way. Which is pretty clear. This exercise will have the additional benefit of putting Bush and Cheney’s personal interests at direct loggerheads, where they belong; and a whole lot of other cages will rattle in the process.
All I am really suggesting is that given the public record, including Cheney’s shooter interview, should any one really give him the benefit of the doubt in not pressing the issue. You know some apt politician may get an idea rather than pleading special legislative knowledge.
The only way they are directly at loggerheads is in the context of an overriding insistence on the truth in the oversight threat of simultaneous impeachment proceedings. For what other reason would either one of them fold?
Not only the trouble to “suggest”. Fitz said that the VP had put that cloud there himself and then hit the ball into congress’s court.
So why would Dean have been purposely and publicly challenged Fitz?
I don’t think that fold is the correct word. I think that once this line of logic is established, and on the record, with Congress contemplating going further, that it makes their interests adverse and all kind of fissures and other benefits start to appear. We can’t get very far without piercing their unified veil somehow or another. I think also that Bush is weak and would sell out Cheney to save himself if it got down to that. I dunno, but the steps have to be taken to do anything; they should have been by Congress years ago
Here’s what I think went down:
Cheney and Libby were both over at CIA for a long time trying to drum up supporting evidence for the war marketing project. Cheney and Libby both probably knew Valerie Plame as Valerie Plame. Cheney asked CIA to find out if something from Niger was sold to Iraq. Plame suggested Wilson to those in her office. Wilson went and reported back that no there was no evidence of that..Cheney decided to spin it anyway. The words went into the speech. Bushco went to war. Wilson wrote his op-ed, pissing off Cheney. Cheney and Libby poked around and found out that Plame was Wilson’s wife. Cheney and Libby via WHIG said go get both of them…tell reporters, etc., discredit both of them. Then shizzola hit the fan, and Cheney found out he leaked something illegal, because he didn’t have that authorization; so he went to Addington, who prepared the “fix” by creating a new EO giving Cheney declassification powers…”after the fact”…to cover his butt. He had to get Bush to sign off, which of course he did. Only when the reporters were putting pressure on McClellan, did he go to W to find out what to say to the reporters. That is where McClellan, Card, Bush, Cheney and others were planning damage control…they had multiple discussions. but were still denying Rove was involved to McC…, and McC was telling reporters that Rove was not involved…but not denying Libby was involved. McC goes to Libby and Rove, who both deny they were involved. McC tells reporters they were not involved and he had spoken to both of them. Then McC gets told to exonerate Libby. Then McC finds out both were involved.
So, what I think is that it is clear that Cheney was the leaker and did not have the authority to leak her name at the time it was leaked. Everything else was a cover-up and damage control, and the cover-up continues with the aid of Mukasey. Just my 2 cents.
Mr. “I won’t investigate anything” Mukasey.
What declassification defenses legal or common sense are available when declassifying Plame’s shop exposed a number of agents to harm/death and some of them may have been turned into stars on a piece of granit?
Bush continues to remain in a stronger position than Cheney, as has been insinuated, if he is pressed on his promise that anyone who leaked Plame would be “relieved” he will just rattle off the names: Ari, Libby, Rove, Card. He didn’t promise to announce his actions. He lacks the constitutional power to discharge Cheney.
Mucklazy
Somewhat OT, though Olbermann was mentioned earlier as a preferred replacement for Russert on MTP, here’s a story up on The New Yorker website about Olbermann and his impact on how the news is presented. Here’s a teaser quote, regarding the pre-show discussions of Olbermann’s special commentary on Dumbya’s ‘giving up golf’ gaffe:
I’m not a fanatic about Olbermann (just about Mac computers), but I watch his show because no one else on TV today (save Bill Moyers) is saying out loud at all what he’s willing to say nightly. Give Rachel Maddow a show, retire Buchanan and Tweety, and NBC would be worth watching more than an hour a night (with a minor h/t to Dan Abrams for his Siegelman coverage).
Of course I appreciate the suggestion tactically.
The Rule of Law is to defend against crimes? To expose crimes? Obstruction of justice is to defend crimes to cover them up from view. To protect the perpertrator of those crimes.
High crimes against the people…that seriously injure the public good are what is being obstructed. Continuing crimes against humanity are being allowed. These crimes have to be shared by the defenders of obstructiuon as coequal participants. In the courts it is known as “Accessories”.
We as a civilization are at that point where we degenerate into a morass of immorality. How could anyone in good conscience watch the annihilation of human kindness, morals or ethical behavior as a guiding principle of our government?
The crimes are palpably vile.
In that case I meant defense as in “roll of the dice.”
Because he’s frustrated that Rove wasn’t nailed. I’ve been critical of Fitz for not doing it but Bmaz made a statement yesterday that probably accurately characterizes Fitz. Fitz is hardly out of his league with this WH, and is one of the best litigators/investigator supervisors at DOJ–but he has been screwed by graymail, deliberately trashed servers and email on the servers, and unfortunately we can’t know what Fitz knows.
I’d sure like to have transcripts of the six Rove interviews, and all the interviews of WH personnel, Time, Newsweek, NBC employees involved.
The fox is guarding the henhouse.
I was sure that there was no one that would protect Bush like Gonzo did, so flagrantly disregarding the law and saying “I forgot” whenever he was asked a question. But Muklazy is just as bad, in a different way. He rationalizes every reason not to do anything. He usually gets back to Congress fairly quickly with reasons why he won’t be investigating this or that. But there hasn’t been a response to Waxman’s letter yet, has there?
June 10 was the deadline given. It’s five days past. I haven’t heard that they received anything.
OT-What ever happened to Scott Bloch? Talking about a bolt of the blue to potential accountability.
They’ll never retire the Tweetster. Tney’ll never move Buchanan off the air. As Frank Rich aptly pointed out this morning, MSNBC and CrazyNews Network have been pushing the meme that Obama has an uphill battle capturing the votes of white women when he already has the votes of most of them.
I’d like to do a retrospective superimposing on point questions with each of those luminaries interviewed by Russert of the questions Russert was either afraid to ask or not smart enough to ask. Russert managed to miss key questions with everyone he interviewed, certainly with Cheney, and the Clintons. All respect due to The Boss, Russert often failed to hold feet to the fire.
It’d be a great day if KO took the reins of MTP. David Gregory is doing a fine job of missing key questions and paralleling Russert in that respect.
Women and McCain