What an absolute mess. I can’t imagine any way to unwind this stupid, pointless, inhuman travesty of justice. This will do nothing but inflame the violent radicals on both sides and humiliate anyone with a sense of dignity.

Is religion the first or last line of defense for people? Some say they done did it because jesus (2nd base, Atlanta, bats left, you know) said to. Some think that just because they are gay, they should be punished because moo ham sandwich said so. Now, what religious leaders aren’t gay you ask? darn good question. Let’s ask their toys!

KSM represents the fundies of all religions … who ought to be put in Mental Asylums.

Hi Marcy. OT but I posed a question for you over here. Basically, re your Henry Waxman post do you think he’s willing to provoke a showdown over it? You say “it sure seems like Waxman is intent to find out”. Do you think he’ll go to the mattresses over it? The next time that happens with this Congress will be the first.

KSM and Hagee.

I’m actually all in favor of the world being rid of KSM as soon as possible, but not at the expense of what it has already cost. Still, IMO a slightly better tactic for KSM’s PR crew would be for him to refuse counsel untill his kidnapped and disappeared children are produced by the Decider and Child Abuser in chief.

Maybe after this many years in United States jails, he thinks death is a better avenue for him.

Waxman is clearly suggesting that not turning over the information is tantamount to covering up for Bush and CHeney–in potentially criminal obstruction. Of course, that’s not why Waxman ostensibly wants the documents. But I think he’s trying to force Mukasey to think of his OWN legal position before he rejects this request again.

Do you think he’ll do more than send sternly worded letters though? It seems like Cheney et. al. are playing hard ball and Congress is playing whiffle ball.

I don’t know if I’m reading too much into this but watching Jello Jay’s presser today makes me think the Dems are going on offense.

I think Waxman has several options if he gets blown off. At the least, he can subpoena this and force Mukasey to claim that something which didn’t rise to executive privilege in the first go-around and which, between Libby’s GJ transcript and Scottie’s book, has been released already, is privileged. We’ll see, but I just think Waxman’s got a stronger hand than Conyers, for several reasons.

Of course, once Fitz tells HJC whatever he’s burning to tell them, I suspect Conyers will have quite a bit of leverage with Rove, unless Mukasey starts an active investigation into Rove’s role int he firings.

God I hope so.

Same sex marriage!!! OMG! If it were not so serious a circumstance, I’d say something awful. Still, one can not help but see that torture can make the victim spout anything - including ‘Publican talking points. I wonder if KSM does not see waterboarding as ‘punishment’ (it is not, according to Scalia)?

Shutting up for now, Sailmaker

Then please knock these straw men down:

1. Waxman issues a subpoena, Mukasey claims privilege (even if it is absurd) and basically says “let’s go to court again.” Courts have been very reluctant to get involved in these tug-of-war battles between executive & legislative branches. Game: Mukasey.

2. Mukasey announces an active investigation into Rove’s role in the firings. It becomes the most lethargic activity in history and dies of neglect. Game: Mukasey.

How could Waxman strategize (I hate that word) around it or what more forceful action could he take?

I don’t think they’re straw men at all.

I guess the question is, does Waxman want to turn Mukasey into a target, and does Waxman want to move beyond the fiction that this is just about classification (though it is very much about that).

But if Mukasey says no, Waxman starts making stinks about Mukasey actively helping to cover up illegal activiies. Mukasey knows he won’t be here past January 20–if he really thinks he is risking his own legal position, I think he’ll think twice. Of course, that requires Waxman that this is just about classification and not coverups and obstruction of Fitz’ investigation.

Remember, too, that Scottie McC is almost certainly abotu to give sworn testimony before HJC in the near future. Once that happens–and any pretense of privilege is shot–then I think Mukasey will be in a tighter position even if Waxman doesn’t come after Mukasey directly.

OK. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Marcy!

So my newly minted CA marriage rights are going to get KSM the death penalty?

Boy, talk about a two-fer. I’m pretty broken up about that one…

Gay marriage? Egads!…Seems as if KSM, had he been born an American, would have happily voted as a Republican–maybe even for Bush or McCain.

Or our Republicans, had they been born as ’scary Islamics,’ might have evolved into Al Qaeda sympathizers (or worse), given their anti-gay marriage pronouncements, Sharia law and all.

Alas, the publication of KSM’s (?) talking points reminds me of the last US presidential election: Bin Laden’s October Surprise was publicized to the world instructing Americans (in Red states)to vote for Kerry for President and not for Bush–if they knew what was good for them.

. Mukasey knows he won’t be here past January 20–if he really thinks he is risking his own legal position

This is what has surprised me about Mukasey, I know he is conservative, but to risk your good name…once it is lost..! I would think above all he would want history to remember him for being fair and just, following the letter of the law as well as the spirit.

He’s also eroding what good name Schumer & Feinstein have left.

OT - Score one for the non-fanatics

you mean they still have one?

my snark tag didn’t post …

He’ll get the death penalty anyway.

But because you can get married in CA, his death will have less legitimacy and be more of a terrorism recruiting tool, if KSM continues to seem smarter than the guys running the courtroom.

EW i’m reading the Working group report is this the work sheet so to speak of JAG, or DOD or who.

Better keep that in the JAG one. Too many reports out there.

I wonder this about a lot of people, and it isn’t just their good names. We already know how Mukasey is going to go down in the history books — at least I think we do. But I can’t believe there won’t be trials, some sort of international accounting for what has happened during the Bush admin. IANAL, so I can’t imagine how that is going to happen, but I am convinced that it will.

I also don’t believe that KSM is an exact equivalent of any North American bigot. The end result sounds so much the same, but the cultures and the causes are so different.

Then would a law banning the public wearing of yarmulkes be “score one for the non-fanatics?”

/4jkb4ia’s husband

What this shows is the non-fanatics’ fear of the social pressure of the fanatics.

The culture might be different superficially but the core belief/cause is exactly the same … be exactly as I am/think or be unworthy of living …

“I also don’t believe that KSM is an exact equivalent of any North American bigot”

Hear, hear!

What the actors in this Administration have done to the Constitution, the Country and our reputation, was done with a type of zeal found only in the most fervent religious zealots. Perhaps a Church of the Bushies will come from the ashes of our republic.

That seems to be any country there are always some a__ __ hole that thinks he is the end all. That goes for the extreme rightt or left of Christian faith also.

That article is about a sustained fight between fanatics and non fanatics ruling Turkey.

Wearing yarmulkes is not about subjugating women the way Burkas/Headscarves do …

Petrocelli, I hate to disagree with you but I’m going to disagree with you.

On the subject of so-called “secularism” in Turkey, people should read novelists Orhan Pamuk (Nobel Prize winner) or Elif Shafak, or any other respectable Turkish intellectual who genuinely believes in freedom of conscience.

There are many struggles going on in Turkey, most of them complicated by games played by the CIA and like agencies. For a long time, though, “secularism” has been part of the ideology inherited by the Turkish military and judicial elites from Ataturk’s revolution, and those are not nice people, Petrocelli — I promise you; they aren’t Western liberals. They are exceptionally repressive, and their fights with Erdogan revolve more around his genuine populism and liberalism than any superficial concerns about ethnicity or religion. Erdogan is the guy who wants to take Turkey into the EU — he is the liberal, whatever his religion. The secularists are the guys who hate him for doing that, and for doing it well so far.

Heh, wish he had brought up the children today too. Seriously, if I was assigned advisory counsel, I would motion up some sort of combined insanity/torture defense. The man wants to represent himself and wants the death penalty; he’s fucking insane by definition! Has the added benefit for being a vehicle for putting the maximal amount of torture evidence in the record too.

Former Fed @6 - Regrettably, death may be a better avenue for him.

We need superlative attorneys like Nevin defending KSM so that the egregious violations and punctures of the legal system get detected and show cased by the most capable people.

On a somewhat related note, my bookie service puts Boumediene v. Bush to be announced next Monday or at the latest the Monday after that.

KSM may be wanting to represent himself and supposedly wants the death penalty - but that, in his case, may not represent insanity as it would in a ‘normal’ case.

KSM has been tortured, including waterboarded. He has been told that his children either were tortured/were going to be tortured as well. The fact that he ‘confessed’ to about fifteen things he couldn’t have possibly have done means that he was trying desperately to save the kids. And since the kids are no where to be found - he probably believes he has failed. And that is where the death wish comes in.

The fact that he doesn’t trust anyone from the US to represent him - well, after what he has been through - including the loss of his children to torture/kidnapping/whatever - who can blame him?

In his shoes, I might want the same things - death because I couldn’t live with myself for not protecting my children, and to represent myself - because I absolutely cannot trust my torturers to do a fair job.

What’s so hard to understand?

I don’t know if he is insane or not; quite frankly I don’t care. If I were his advisory attorney, it would be my obligation to give him the best and fullest defense possible and make the most comprehensive record possible. Ergo, you make the effort.

I totally agree with you. I honestly don’t know if KSM is actually guilty of anything other than being tortured at this point.

But he deserves a defense, and not one hamstrung by the MCA or any other stupid trick this administration claims passes for justice.

bmaz - maybe you could even work some Ashcroft quotes into that motion?

A Golden Ashcroft:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,46010,00.html

“Some have asked whether a civilized nation, a nation of law and not of men can use the law to defend itself from barbarians and remain both civilized and free. Our answer is unequivocally ‘yes,’” Ashcroft told members attending the National Religious Broadcasters’ convention. “Yes, we will defend civilization and yes, we will remain free. We will preserve the rule of law because it is the rule of law that keeps us both civilized and free.”

He said it all with a straight face, even while heading off to principals meetings to discuss human trafficking and experimentation.

BREAKING: Obama is meeting with Clinton in Clinton’s DC home.

MSNBC

And along the way, like Henry Blake with Radar, furiously scribbling his name on authorizations and opinions that he was “out of the loop” on.

Apologies for the OT, but as near as I can tell this only appeared at NYT website about 10 min ago and may be of interest to wider ranging discussions here (hope Leen’s around):

2 Top Leaders of Air Force Pushed Out After Inquiry

“…following an official inquiry into the mishandling of nuclear weapons and components…”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....itary.html

eWheelies may want to check McClatchy, since they have the better track record, AND ALSO an item about the Pentagon being punked by Iran:

McClatchy’s title is more frank:
Air Force officials out over sloppy handling of nuclear weapon (by Nancy Youssef)
“…after a Pentagon report last month found that the Air Force had systematic problems in the way it guards and transports U.S. nuclear weapons and their components…”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40045.html

John Walcott is the byline:Did Iranian agents dupe Pentagon officials? (So it looks like that SSCI report is a ‘must read’!)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40080.html

Anyone think those threads about Pentagon agents being ‘duped’ don’t lead elsewhere…? ? Paging eWheelies…!! WTF is going on here?! Just how big IS this clustserfuck?!

Bob H, you were correct in your surmise that there are deeper waters here than we can readily discern. And more interlinking, interlocked facets to this puzzle than I can count.

Jesus, Mary, Joesph and allllllllll the saints and angels (!)

With, or without, Bill?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob in HI

No se. !! Her home/his home.

The press corps flew off without Obama!

Hey Bob, here’s one of the money quotes in the article by Walcott:

A top aide to then-secretary of defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, however, shut down the 2003 investigation into the group’s activities after only a month, and Pentagon officials never followed up on investigators’ recommendation for a more thorough investigation, the Senate report said.

The revelation raises questions about whether Iran may have used a small cabal of officials in the Pentagon and in Vice President Dick Cheney’s office to feed bogus intelligence on Iraq and Iran to senior policymakers in the Bush administration who were eager to oust the Iraqi dictator.

Okay, I’ll go back to the SSCI thread later on after I read this… and after I breath deeply from the smelling salts.

Candidates: Feith, Wurmser, Cambone, Perle, Wolfowitz…?
And how can this NOT tie up with Plame…?

I heard this story on NPR this morning– at least, I thought I did, but I can’t find it now on their list of segments. My interpretation is that these 2 guys were Cheney-men, part of Cheney’s parallel government, and were engaging in — what’s it called? Black flag operations? So I consider this a good thing, until someone explains otherwise.

Bob in HI

Skdadl, I wouldn’t learn anything new if no one ever disagreed with me and I thank you for the insight.

I’m of the opinion that doing away with repressive customs brings Turkey closer to European ideals, of which I am in favor; I remember the fight to abolish the death penalty over there.

I can also see where the oppressors might use this to prevent girls from attaining higher education … it will be interesting to see what follows. I’m sure the EU is watching this intently.

As Pat Lang writes, the Iranians play chess and our team barely knows the rules of checkers.

ACLU close Guantanamo petition.

The Iranians don’t just play chess– they invented it!

Bob in HI

Gosh golly, the whole play out the primary string until all the votes were cast, give your respective speeches and then intelligently and deliberately move the concession to winding down to unity process along like clockwork almost makes it seem like the two candidates have been in agreement and on the same page on all this for at least a week, if not more. Craazzy man!

Really cool, huh? It will be so refreshing to have adults in charge.

And since it’s petition season, here’s the Leahy/Feinstein anti-cluster bomb petition.

Perhaps this is proof that the Iranians were playing chess to our tic-tac-toe? Actually, this was pretty apparent in May 2004 when we figured out that Chalabi had told the Iranians we had cracked their codes and were listening to their communications.

Breaking he’s going to tell her again–she can try to support him constructively but she is out for VP and she’s not going to play a role in his administration.

Bill could face criminal liability if he releases the Library contributors.

Psst Loo Hoo–wanna really talk dirty on a libral blog. Wanna say 3 really dirty phrases noone will talk about or utter. They were the opening salvo in getting the Clintons the hell out of the way in an Obama administration and the story the media refuses to tell as they gush about Hillary and Barack getting down at her little Norma Rae is it trailer? Is it a studio apartment? Gee it looks like a big ass house in a plush neighborhood in DC?

Do they order out? Will Hillary be knocking back her favorite beverage Maker’s on the Rocks, or will she be doing boiler makers? You think she’ll try to spike Barack’s blue berry muffins with some high THC content grass and then call the cops and say he was trying to rape her? I don’t have them sitting on the couch. Will Hillary drag a dress out of moth balls? You think shell be doing the S&M thing with fishnet thigh highs, Manolos and a whip or is she into Jimmie Choos and maybe she’ll wear her Sex and the City outfit.

At any rate she’s out. Barack and Michelle and Axelrod aren’t having any part clusterfuck of the exponential amount of Clinton baggage that makes Jeremiah Wright look like Billy Graham.

What she needs to be told is to make a clean break from the limelight and bow the fuck out Friday and to tell her completely over the top nutcases to quit the Denver Denver petitions and whacko who used to be a decent lawyer Lanny Davis to cut the Denver shit and cut the petitions for VP.

There is no place for the Clinton baggage in this electino with a real chance to get someone capable back in the White House. And it’s going to be make clear to her tonight.

Library Contributors to Clintons
Clinton tax returns 2007
Ron Burkle million dollar deals revealed with Clintons

From the Forward, via Laura Rozen:

Many of these past associations emerged in a recent episode revealed during my meeting with Luttwak: that he was shown the infamous Niger forgeries by a friend with the Italian intelligence agency Sismi, when he was working as a consultant to a Sismi contractor named Luciano Monti in the 2001-2002 time frame, but that he refused to back-channel them to the Bush administration. (He never agrees to back-channel intelligence, Luttwak said, and these looked like forgeries to him.) The allegations in the forgeries, of course, became one of the Bush White House’s most controversial casus belli for the Iraq war — and, after proven phony even on the eve of the invasion, among the most embarrassing and politically damaging for the president and vice president, who cited the bogus uranium allegations despite warnings from the CIA not to. […]

Fairly interesting piece on the spooky/goofy Luttwak; worth a read. Sounds like it took even a tool like Luttwak a whole ten seconds to look at the Niger docs and know conclusively that they were worthless forgeries. So, how much more evidence and proof do we need in order to just consider the duplicity of Bush and his Administration on the Iraq nuke issue, from the very outset, an established fact?

Gee Pete, and I thought you might pop by and confess that I was exactly right. And without the vitriolic horseshit. Guess not.

Does this guarantee a prime time speaking spot for KSM at the GOP convention this summer?

-G

Yeah, they are going to try to fit him in between Ron Paul and Short Ride Lieberman. Ought to be quite a show. Sure hope KSM gets to see the Wide Stance Stall at the Twin Cities airport while he is in town.

I am leaving this for EW. Edward Lazarus was Harry Blackmun’s law clerk and he wrote a fantastic, extensively footnoted book that caused the Supremes like tight assed asshole Scalia to be so upset they make the law clerks now sign a secrecy contract. It’s an excellent book, I think and should be required reading for every law student:

Closed Chambers: The Rise, Fall, and Future of the Modern Supreme Court (Paperback)

Many people say it absolutely cost Lazarus who has practiced criminal defense as well as law clerked at the S. Ct. being the youngest judge on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and that he was a shoo in as a Clinton appointee until he wrote the book.

I dunno if they also make them sign in blood–that’s probably a touch from Pinpoint Georgia’s pride Clarence Thomas.

At any rate Ed Lazarus and others write some thought provoking essays on Find Law’s writ and he wrote one on Michigan/Florida @ the RBG Coral I thought you’d like to see.

The Long Shadow of Bush v. Gore:
Are Its Lessons Relevant to the Decision Whether to Seat Florida and Michigan Democratic Delegates?

Here’s the thing Bmaz. There is not vitrolic bullshit. I’m giving you the news straight from the lawyers who are vetting VP candidates. She was disqualified

1) Because of their baggage and the fact that they would be a liability to his campaign and the media is missing the story.

2) Clinton is leveraging because Bill has told her to, and she has no real leverage.

3) She was told and frefuses to believe she has no place in the future administration and is not going to be on the ticket whatever the public is fed.

When Holder told Bill they could submit her for VP but they would have to submit all the vetting documents, Bill’s direct reply was “Fuck You Holder.” As you know Holder was DAG of the Criminal Division when Bill was in da house.

There is nothing vitrolic here–not even close.

Had you been correct Bmaz, and had she been thinking straight she would have quit thinking in terms of leverage, and what role she wants to demand. She would have told McAuliffe to stay home with his wife and 5 kids in his plus DC neighborhood and not to come to NY or at least not to introduce her as the next President on Tuesday night. That was total horseshit. And her nutty comment that South Dakota ended the race and she got more votes was also fiction.

At some point in life, you don’t get to keep making your own rules. That point happened to the Clintons Tuesday night and I can put together a collage of Hillary’s Greatest Hits from this campaign and they are simply ugly.

I don’t know how you can possibly justify the comment that McCain was ready for the Oval, she was but Obama was an empty suit and had only a speech as much as you know about McCain.

That was an over the line comment beyond the pale.

Her conduct in the last 96 hours was bizarre. I understand her disappointment. It comes to all of us. But this was a Presidential Race and she could have and should have conducted herself and people like McAuliffe as adults. And the crap she leaked to her witless and way over he head cheerleader Andrea Mitchell who is just glad to have a job on TV was idiotic.

Note that Hillary Rosen who was a very firm and open talking head Clinton supporter who used to be general counsel for the RIAA has come out strongly and said Clinton’s conduct was clearly a series of poor choices and her speech Tuesday night was diametrically opposed to what she should have been saying. And I agree with Rosen on this point.

For what it’s worth, there is a real story and it will take the lethargic dull witted media a month to get it out but the Clintons were told to vet and release those documents months ago by the Obama attorneys and they said “Fuck You.” They were told agian last week and they said “Fuck You” and both Bill and Hillary have told her she is out as far as Obama’s ticket or his cabinet or any prominent job.

Oh, there were clearly bizarre strands that contradicted one another, that being only one of them. And it was Cambone who shut down the DOD internal investigation; surprise, surprise, eh?

My heart really goes out to the military and families who’ve lost anyone in this war.
But the question remains: ‘how big is this clusterfuck? and who all are involved?’
Cheney’s at the core, but we knew that.

The Clintons whose campaign finance manager was in the NYT yesterday issuing a demand of the VP slot for Clinton as a requirement for hooking up Obama with her fund raising have been told point blank “I don’t need your money.” I again reject your hedgefund corporate contributions and your contributions from lobbyists and we are insulted by your fuckhead’s demands that you get something for money.”

I think that’s how whores work isn’t it?

At any rate the Obama campaign has told the Clintons in no uncertain terms to stop their finance managers from peddling contributor money for some office that she is not going to be offered to be purchased for Hillary.

If you can show me where you think I’m inaccurate, fine, but the story is going to come out and I am right on point with the vetting resistance, the liberal blogs refusal to explore any of it (and I wouldn’t spend a nanosecond of my time trying to read the crap on Republican blogs ever any more than I would shut myself in a dark closet and try to contemplate how paint dries).

There is a lot of focus on Obama meeting Clinton at her house and endless focus of the media on her place in his administration, and I am telling you what’s really happening.

BTW do you have any information on Fitz’s control of his case file, investigations, interviews and any place Mukasey would have in Fitz’s discretion to release it. The Libby case is over, although he could technically be indicted for something else. Rezko is over.

And given all the rhetoric before Walton on whether Fitz could appropriately run the prosecution and in the appellate briefs/apellee briefs at the D.C. Circuit, I don’t understand what role Mukasey could possibly have in the Special Counsel’s discretion as to his material, and frankly don’t see why Fitz won’t release the interviews in the Oval Office unless as LHP says he may be patiently still building cases in his role as Special Counsel where the office has not been closed.

Rezko is over except for the appeals to the 7th Circuit and the cert. petition after they deny it.

Well, and the sentencing. My best guess is that Mukasey still has ultimate control because Fitz was still considered to be under the DOJ and, furthermore, Mukasey has no conflict like Ashcroft did (arguable Gonzales too, but for different reasons).

Oh, and by the way, what I have been saying all along is based on pretty damn direct information, and the framework for the way things have transpired was what has been generally contemplated all along (for at least a week or so) by the candidates. The bleating and posturing by their respective staffs and supporters is either an intentional facade (for a few) or ignorance based upon the crazed bullshit being purveyed by the media (for most).

Surly KSM can find at least on American lawyer who is not influenced by the US constitution. Anyone out there? Yoo-hoo?

If he wants an American lawyer who is not influenced by the USA Constitution, he is in luck! The DOJ is chock full o the fuckers.

I need to brush up on Fitz’s material whatever it is. As LHP referenced, there is only so much in the public domain. And the more I think about it whatever emails Fitz has, and the rest of his material, he may have reasons for holding it tight to the chest if he is contemplating building a future Special Counsel case (cases) related to Plame or the US Attorney firings and what I call the highjacking of Main Justice.

Maybe I’m confused about what you’ve been saying all along. I’m not trying to beat up Clinton, but I’m objectively saying what I’m getting that’s pretty direct and many of us have been urging the Obama campaign to vet the Clintons in those 3 areas I’ve repeated and they have refused to cooperate.

I thought you told me the other night; stay cool; she will concede gracefully.

I remember the Teddy Kennedy Carter fiasco where Carter chased Teddy around trying to get Teddy to do the hands of victory pose and Carter still blames Teddy for his loss to Ronnie Raegan in 1980.

I don’t think she is needed to concede gracefully or otherwise. But from the moment she began behaving strangly she began marginalizing herself.

I know what her scorched earth supporters think. I only have to read Jeralyn’s blog to see Jeralyn and Bit Tent Democrat still pushing for President Clinton in the face of Presumed Nominee Obama and Presumed Nominee McCain.

And besides that I have to see Big Tent D’s futile attempts at swaying “Oh and the Lakers are going to beat the Celtics–too athletic for them.” In the game I’m watching that doesn’t seem to be what’s happening on the floor in Boston.

I made my medical diagnosis and she’s confirming it–I don’t care what she does in public at this point, because her actions confirmed my diagnosis perfectly.

The Clintons nastily refused to cooperate on releasing the tax returns, Burkle financials,and Library financials and paper trail of the library money and Burkle money to their bank accounts and their campaign and the Obama campaign has been swift to obliged them in spades.

The Clintons might think they have leverage, but they are confused on the leverage polarity.

LOL great comment, but at least I hope a lawyer gets through to them that they are not his friend.

I should have written I hope some lawyer gets through to KSM that DOJ are not his friends.

What US Constitution are you referring to? You mean the historic document we used to have?

So far, if you cut out all the stupid noise, and there is an absolute ton, it is actually progressing smoothly and appropriately. She and Obama both know what they are doing and they are going to get this right, I assure you. All the crap is making it difficult though. I do think there should have been a little more discussion in her speech Tuesday night about the historic nature of what Obama had just accomplished; but in the long run, that will mean very little. Give both of them the air and they will get it right. With that, I am done on this.

You’re right about the stupid noise. It’s exactly like Sports Center/the networks broadcasting the game during the half time of the NBA playoffs. They have to fill a lot of airtime on cable.

Michelle is on The View 6/18. Cindy the other woman was on today.

These are two smart and savvy people, they know what they are doing if everybody would just chill and let them do it. Her most ardent supporters, and all the campaign staff, were all still pretty ginned up, and crikey, they did win a primary Tuesday night. The decompression could not be immediate; but it has been rather rapid in just two days. Thats a good thing and by the time they are done on Saturday, my guess is that almost all of her supporters will have been transitioned onto Obama, and they will get the rest over the remaining time between now and November. And that is the goal. She will do whatever he wants her to do as far as campaigning, and he ought to have her literally pounding on it; she has become fairly accomplished. We are in good shape; the asinine noise notwithstanding.

Cindy is not a bad person, back in the day, she was pretty cool; her husband is not.

Thank you for these comments. There really was not good reason not to run the thing out to the end of the primaries - and from what you say the transition will be well handled. Plus she could not in all conscience drop a complete concession on her people on Tuesday.

Thanks again.

On a lighter note I was catching up on the NYT and I saw this from Arizona’s Sandra Day O’Conner and ASU from the lady that swung vote you Bush in 2000:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/.....k-justice/

Heh, you know, it really is not that surprising in a way. She has always kind of sought out different things and views you might not expect. For what it’s worth (and even from a local boy like me who respects her much, it is not worth a whole lot), the rumor around here has long been that she very much regrets that vote. Toobin pretty much confirmed that in his book The Nine. I have not read it; however, I heard him reading from it and discussing on NPR. I understand it is good; maybe EW will come along and say more; I believe she was just reading it.

whaddayaknow

they really do hate us because of our freedom

too bad the repuglitards hate us because of our freedom too

Gay Marriages for EVERYBODY, lets REALLY piss those intolerant Muslims off (and explode a few repuglitard heads in the bargain

Matt Iglesias apparently covered this in 2004. No one will like his conclusion, even if they agree with him. h/t atrios

One book I know a lot of people here would like a lot I have–The Broken Branch: How Congress is Failing America and How To Get It Back on Track by Thomas Mann at Brookings and Norman J. Ornstein at American Enterprise Institute.

Toobin’s book is very good–and I’ve only read part of it.

It got good reviews across the board. Toobin has a very good chapter on Bush v. Gore and some inside baseball behind the scenes. Anyone interested should definitely google for the Vanity Fair article written by 3 law clerks who were in the chambers and writing emails and memos back and forth to see the dark underbelly of how the Supreme Couts 9 lawfirms operate and make sausage that has S. Ct. citations.

There is one story that a lot of people don’t know where Ginsberg decided at the last minute after reading newspaper articles on black voters being turned away and intimidated by troopers and purged with all kinds of lists by data mining companies hired by the stupid bitch Katherine Harris and in that footnote Ruthie wrote that if there were any equal protection violations by the state, it was more likely they were by state and local autho0rities than by the Florida Supreme Court. This enraged Scalia so much that he wrote a memo to Ginsberg, sealed it in an envelop and put it on her desk marked to only be read by her. In it, (obviously someone else read it or she leaked it) he wrote that she was “fouling their nest…and using Al Sharpten tactics. I am simplyamazed that she rolled and removed the footnote, probably because she plays Bridge or whatever with Scalia and valued her personal relationship more than this particular slice of judicial integrity.

I looked for this in the book and reread the chapter and didn’t find it. It could be in one of O’Conner’s speeches and a lot of people use passages to interpret her later opinions and dissents to say that she is stating in so many words she regrets the vote.

I have placemarks in a number of legal books, and still wonder why Lawrence Tribe got depressed/demoralized and made a terse cryptic statement that he was not going to write the third volume of his Constitutional Law book. I don’t think it was 911 that did it at all. I think it was something he thought was equally bad–Alito and Roberts and the stupidity and childishness of the fuckers on the Senate Judiciary committee that let them pass as if they had been led out in T-shirts from a line in the Burger Chef and their butts planted in seats on the Judiciary Committee.

I have bookmarks in Martin Garbus’ The Next 25 Years The Supreme Court, Jan Crawford Greenburg’s (ABC Legal Correspondent who has a blog) and is almost never on the air although she should be interpreting many of the issues discussed here but then it’s TV and I guess Disney thinks it’s better that the people eat pablum and not understand how very fucked up this country is legally) Supreme Conflict whose book is thought by most to have been very timid and to have glossed over many important issues but it’s still interesting.

Linda Greenhouse’s Becoming Justice Blackmun which was based on an awful lot of research she had while she had access to Blackmun’s papers and I believe only Nina Totenberg got the other access (I think she does a great job covering the S. Ct for NYT but stopping by Harvard Law School and graduating from it on the way to NYT is a pretty spiffy route for a newspaper reporter and she answers my emails.

Cass Sunstein Republic.com (U Chicago Law who has written several recent books I want to read like Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions, Constitutional Law: Casebook and Radicals in Robes: Why Extreme Right-Wing Courts are Wrong for America and Are Judges Political?: An Empirical Analysis of the Federal Judiciary

9th Circuit Appeals Court Judge John T. Noonan Jr.’s Narrowing the Nation’s Power: The Supreme Court Sides with the States a study in Supremacy or Federalism cases in the S. Ct.

I have about 50 other books on the S. Ct. with bookmarks in all of them.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution by a law prof. has some nice slants.

I would just emphasize that Toobin has written an excellent book and reading parts of it tonight looking for that passage on O’Copnner–but I didn’t read all the pages on her–and rereading the chapter on Bush v. Gore made me put it in my special drawer to try to finish it.

Here’s the article by the three former law clerks that were part of Bush v. Gore:

THE PATH TO FLORIDA

The Long Shadow of Bush v. Gore This article also has a hyperlink to Lazarus (Harry Blackmun’s law clerk I wrote about earlier whose excellent book on the S. Ct. I linked above probably cost him a seat on the bench of the 9th Circuit as the youngest judge there.) He has been an AUSA, a criminal defense attorney after, and currently teaches law in L.A.

I thought Marcy would like reading this article because it is recent and on the Florida-Michigan decisions before they were done by RBG.

She could have Fern, and she should have, and the dysfunction will do long lasting damage to the Clinton brand and Hillary.

I know the truth must not be comfortable for you, but sitting Shiva and being ambiguous was not the appropriate thing for Hillary to do.

A few points:

She still crazily tries to retain her former delegates, even after the two candidates aren now squaring off. I don’t know if you’re aware of the rest of these points.

1) The Clintons have been explicitly informed that she is not going to have a place in the Obama administration. That means Bill is not as well, at least anything like a cabinet position, even an ambasadorship which she wouldn’t prefer to the Senate if she can hold on in NY during the re-election.

2) There has been a complete void, like the disappearing island in Lost whhen it moved, of discussion miraculously on most liberal blogs including FDL of these other points.

3) Obama perceives the Clintons as too much baggage and too much damage. He believes they would mobilize the Republicans and bring out voters against him like no other force. And he’s right. His advisors all agree.

4) The current baggage as I’ve pointed out needed investigation and the Clintons stupidly refused to let it be vetted by Obama’s team. They have told her that seals the doom of her VP hopes if she had any and since she is soon going to say she didn’t, I don’t know what’s in her head there.

As I’ve said, the Clintons were told by Eric Holder and the vetting attorney staff that they had to completely release information to them.

This consisted of Income Tax Returns 2007
All Burkle Sources of Income and where it was deposited
All of the tangled tentacles of the incredible list of Library contributors from Bill’s deals like the $31.5 million contribution after Bill swung the uranium deal.

The Clintons defiantly refused to release this information and like Newsweek’s Johnathan Alter has correctly explained tonight on several shows on MSNBC the Clintons have lost their touch.

Hillary was well aware of how her husband picked Gore for VP, and she knows there was a careful deliberative process, and no one dared to jam Bill Clinton while he took his time at arriving at a decision. I know that there was no one close to Bill once he won as a competitor, but tragically one person was dying of a brain tumor, Tsongas and the other was Ralph Nadar who had already secretly promised the Clintons (Hillary managed to leave this out in her references to Bill’s campaign) that he would stop any negative advertising towards Bill in March. Hillary lied and said Bill clinched the nomination in June and that’s simply not true and this is not classified. Anyone who knows what happened in that campaign then, knows thats the fact.

And if Hillary did want a position in the Obama campaign, she killed it with her mouth and her strategy long ago.

This is not vitrol. And as far as Ican remember I have not seen one post at FDL that even touches on these facts–not one and it’s simply amazing because they have to know at least that these 3 areas are minefields for anyone running for an office if the Clintons try to keep them secret. One of the reasons is that it’s feared that many of the library contributors have earned their money in all kinds of interests in places like Dubai, and there is a nexus with Burkle here that were anti-American interests.

There is also substantive info that Mr, Burkle and his close friend who is often on the planes with Burkle Jeffrey Epstein often precured underaged women and claimed he used them for theraputic massage. This is not the kind of innuendo that Obama’s campaign wants or needs. They were villified with Jerimiah Wright and Clinton nastily fanned those flames with her comments that she doesn’t think he subscribed to them (but implied she was not sure) just as she played games with whether he was Muslim as if Muslim would somehow be wrong or religion should be anywhere near a political campaign instead of far separated from affairs of state.

I don’t know if you saw the email Hillary released to Wonkette, witholding it from the press because she hates the press.

June 5 2AM Email from Hillary Clinton to Wonkette

Hillary Clinton announces to Wonkette at 2AM that she’s dropping out and ’supporting Obama’ but not to the public or the press

Fern it should be made clear to you that Obama has always supported Clinton running “this thing out” until the end of the primaries.

What Clinton is doing up to this second is devisive, because while she has sent the private email I linked for you to Wonkette that most of the media haven’t picked up yet, including the best political teams (according to them) on TV C and MSNBC, Clinton is vascillating on whether to try to hold onto her deligates until Denver and then have someone symbolically nominate her at Denver as in “Denver Denver.”

She has been told by everyone in Congress and the Senate that this is devisive, counter productive, and will not be tolerated. She has “fouled the nest” for herself in the Senate with this narcissistic trademark song and dance, and it’s not going to be tolerated by the Democratic party. Those aren’t her delegates any more, and she’s not going to stay in the picture until Denver. There is nothing whatsoever smooth about what she’s doing, and I did not ever say anywhere I didn’t support her finishing the primaries although she explicitly lied Tuesday night and after Crazy Terry McAuliffe introduced her as the “next President of the United States” afteer Obama clearly had won the number of delegates needed and the Super D’s were flooding just as I said they would last week, she lied and said that South Dakota was the last primary to report and she went out winning the last state. It wasn’t the last state, and she was still clinging to her nut case math that excluded Washington, and other caucus states, and excluded the Virgin Islands, Guam, Montana, and absentee voting which all went strongly for Obama.

You can portray people who are telling the truth insensitive or vitrolic if you like, but you sure don’t seem to mention those three big problem areas where the Clintons refused to release information not only to newspapers like NYT who actually endorsed Hillary before they got a severe case of buyer’s remorse, but they refused to release the financial information sought by Obama.

You don’t get on a Presidential candidate’s ticket by forcing your way on, or getting your campaign finance chairman to tell the New York times above the fold on Wednesday morning in the early AM that a requirmenet for finances the Obama campaign doesn’t want to touch is to force her onto the VP slot.

Her fund raising is precisley the fund raising as to big donors that Obama campaigned against and McCain lied and said he was against in McCain Feingold but sure reached out to get particularly in May.