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	<title>Comments on: The MI Challenge</title>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73345</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 22:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73345</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Pete,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW: You say that Clinton lost the delegate vote in Texas. Funny. They’re not finished wrangling the votes yet. Where do you get your information?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete,</p>
<p>BTW: You say that Clinton lost the delegate vote in Texas. Funny. They’re not finished wrangling the votes yet. Where do you get your information?</p>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73312</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 22:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73312</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am so sorry I stopped back. Geez. Pete, Paul is a long timer. You may not have seen him here, but he’s around and respected.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You, on the other hand, seem to get your talking points about Clinton from the Drudge report. Do you really like Obama or just hate her so much it sets your teeth on edge. You make me want to defend her when I don’t even like her. What’s wrong with this campaign is for people like you, it’s all about Hillary is Satan. Check into Obama’s history. Look at what he’s doing to the 527’s that are needed for the downticket races. Look at what he’s trying to do to control the Democratic Party and the message we’ll be allowed to send. Compare his rhetoric to Lieberman’s. It’s just the same. Argue, for goodness sake, what’s good about Obama (using facts) instead of demonizing a woman and you’ll get a lot more traction. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For anyone else who thinks it’s the over 50 feminists who support her: It may come as a surprise to you, but women aren’t voting for her just because she’s a woman. Saying that is an insult.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so sorry I stopped back. Geez. Pete, Paul is a long timer. You may not have seen him here, but he’s around and respected.</p>
<p>You, on the other hand, seem to get your talking points about Clinton from the Drudge report. Do you really like Obama or just hate her so much it sets your teeth on edge. You make me want to defend her when I don’t even like her. What’s wrong with this campaign is for people like you, it’s all about Hillary is Satan. Check into Obama’s history. Look at what he’s doing to the 527’s that are needed for the downticket races. Look at what he’s trying to do to control the Democratic Party and the message we’ll be allowed to send. Compare his rhetoric to Lieberman’s. It’s just the same. Argue, for goodness sake, what’s good about Obama (using facts) instead of demonizing a woman and you’ll get a lot more traction. </p>
<p>For anyone else who thinks it’s the over 50 feminists who support her: It may come as a surprise to you, but women aren’t voting for her just because she’s a woman. Saying that is an insult.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73077</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 21:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73077</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m beyond your cheap rhetoric or trying to denigrate whether I understand rules, or law.  I’ve posted enough here to get that accross and I’ve never seen your name.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I understand that when the Super Delegates push Obama over the top later this week, the rules are that Clinton is done.  I don’t care what she does or says, she’s done.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The rules are that if you can get to the polls whereve you vote, that you can vote for McCain in November or earlier by absentee.  The rules are that McCain can put Clinton on his ticket. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama won’t be doing that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama has lost 7 of the last 11 primaries — and by HUGE margins in some states, and very large margins in swing states that “look like America”.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s wrong on its face. He won the delegate vote in Texas. Get someone to explain the rules to you. All these bullshit metrics like popular vote don’t count and they aren’t and haven’t been particularly extrapolable to the general.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Without the black vote turning out heavily, you’re looking at McCain and maybe that’s where you want to and ought to be exerting your energy.  They aren’t showing up for Clinton in a general period.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;In the event that a consensus is not reached that givss the a candidate the necessary supermajority, its up to the superdelegates — whose votes are not cast until the convention.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you think that Clinton is going to change the flood of Super D’s that happens next week at Denver, provide your city and I’ll give you a list of some of the best clinical psychiatrists in your area. It will take me a second.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary Clinton lost because of a less effective, flawed campaign strategy through February.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary Clinton lost because her arrogance which is a congenital quality in all 3 Clintons–her 29 year old daughter was afraid to take a question from a third grader representing My Weekly Reader and won’t take questions from the press because she’s been sheltered all her life and will go to her grave in that vein. M&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama has lost 7 of the last 11 primaries — and by HUGE margins in some states, and very large margins in swing states that “look like America”.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only metric in the rules you invoke is Delegates. That’s Delegates and did I mentioned it’s delegates and Clinton lost the Delegate vote in Texas.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve advocated a clarification of the byzantine rules for months before I saw your name here, and rotating regional primaries that would have avoided the Michigan clusterfuck that has people in a room right now knowing that they will make fools of themselves if they don’t come out with a decision. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Clinton lost because her arrogance didn’t believe Obama had the ghost of a chance. They thought he would be another Jessie Jackson as Bill said explicitly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And like Howie Wolfson, you continue to conflate the margins in big states which weren’t landslides. Kentucky (I grew up there, you didn’t) outside of Louisville and Lexington is comprised of poorly educated bell shaped curves of people who are deeply racially biased and wouldn’t know 4 cert. votes in the S. Ct. from 4 cert. mints. That’s the case in West Virginia. They have very few electoral votes. West Virginia has but 5.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your logic is flawed as are your facts. Be sure and tune in to tell me what Clinton is doing on Friday. I guess you think she didn’t flunk the D.C. bar–did you pass her?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m beyond your cheap rhetoric or trying to denigrate whether I understand rules, or law.  I’ve posted enough here to get that accross and I’ve never seen your name.</p>
<p>I understand that when the Super Delegates push Obama over the top later this week, the rules are that Clinton is done.  I don’t care what she does or says, she’s done.</p>
<p>The rules are that if you can get to the polls whereve you vote, that you can vote for McCain in November or earlier by absentee.  The rules are that McCain can put Clinton on his ticket. </p>
<p>Obama won’t be doing that.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Obama has lost 7 of the last 11 primaries — and by HUGE margins in some states, and very large margins in swing states that “look like America”.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s wrong on its face. He won the delegate vote in Texas. Get someone to explain the rules to you. All these bullshit metrics like popular vote don’t count and they aren’t and haven’t been particularly extrapolable to the general.</p>
<p>Without the black vote turning out heavily, you’re looking at McCain and maybe that’s where you want to and ought to be exerting your energy.  They aren’t showing up for Clinton in a general period.   </p>
<p><em>In the event that a consensus is not reached that givss the a candidate the necessary supermajority, its up to the superdelegates — whose votes are not cast until the convention.</em></p>
<p>If you think that Clinton is going to change the flood of Super D’s that happens next week at Denver, provide your city and I’ll give you a list of some of the best clinical psychiatrists in your area. It will take me a second.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Hillary Clinton lost because of a less effective, flawed campaign strategy through February.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hillary Clinton lost because her arrogance which is a congenital quality in all 3 Clintons–her 29 year old daughter was afraid to take a question from a third grader representing My Weekly Reader and won’t take questions from the press because she’s been sheltered all her life and will go to her grave in that vein. M</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Obama has lost 7 of the last 11 primaries — and by HUGE margins in some states, and very large margins in swing states that “look like America”.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The only metric in the rules you invoke is Delegates. That’s Delegates and did I mentioned it’s delegates and Clinton lost the Delegate vote in Texas.</p>
<p>I’ve advocated a clarification of the byzantine rules for months before I saw your name here, and rotating regional primaries that would have avoided the Michigan clusterfuck that has people in a room right now knowing that they will make fools of themselves if they don’t come out with a decision. </p>
<p>Clinton lost because her arrogance didn’t believe Obama had the ghost of a chance. They thought he would be another Jessie Jackson as Bill said explicitly.</p>
<p>And like Howie Wolfson, you continue to conflate the margins in big states which weren’t landslides. Kentucky (I grew up there, you didn’t) outside of Louisville and Lexington is comprised of poorly educated bell shaped curves of people who are deeply racially biased and wouldn’t know 4 cert. votes in the S. Ct. from 4 cert. mints. That’s the case in West Virginia. They have very few electoral votes. West Virginia has but 5.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Your logic is flawed as are your facts. Be sure and tune in to tell me what Clinton is doing on Friday. I guess you think she didn’t flunk the D.C. bar–did you pass her?</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73060</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73060</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey guys you really should check out the kos diary that Mrs. K8 posted. heehawlarious.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;sampling:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Update 36 - Levin: Did you know Michigan cheated in 2004? McCauliffe was all “OMGNOES!” They had hearings and debate. People were PISSED. There were teeth on the floor! Respect the blood! New Hampshire and Iowa were bullies. They suck, yo. Michigan accepted a compromise because they were #######. New Hampshire is EVOL.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Did anyone else know states were so bitchy? Man, New Hampshire and Iowa are like, the popular girls. Michigan is totally a member of the chess club. And Florida? No one will even sit with Florida at lunch anymore.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Update 37 - The Black guy just pulled Brewers card. He knows everybody and is well connected. Black people like unity, too! Someone’s cell just went off. I bet it was Jerome. Jerome, Hillz is on the phone. She wants you to pass Ickes a note telling him to change his shirt.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Update 39 - Unity, Unity, Unity. Affirmative Action. Fair reflection.  People in the audience are grateful he isn’t going to go into the history.  Lunch is getting cold.  there will be a Fair Reflection/Unity deathmatch later.  Icke’s values are being assaulted with a baseball bat, apparently. If we give Obama any delegates, he will feel raped of his freedom.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Respect the blood!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys you really should check out the kos diary that Mrs. K8 posted. heehawlarious.</p>
<p>sampling:</p>
<blockquote><p>Update 36 &#8211; Levin: Did you know Michigan cheated in 2004? McCauliffe was all “OMGNOES!” They had hearings and debate. People were PISSED. There were teeth on the floor! Respect the blood! New Hampshire and Iowa were bullies. They suck, yo. Michigan accepted a compromise because they were #######. New Hampshire is EVOL.</p>
<p>Did anyone else know states were so bitchy? Man, New Hampshire and Iowa are like, the popular girls. Michigan is totally a member of the chess club. And Florida? No one will even sit with Florida at lunch anymore.</p>
<p>Update 37 &#8211; The Black guy just pulled Brewers card. He knows everybody and is well connected. Black people like unity, too! Someone’s cell just went off. I bet it was Jerome. Jerome, Hillz is on the phone. She wants you to pass Ickes a note telling him to change his shirt.</p>
<p>Update 39 &#8211; Unity, Unity, Unity. Affirmative Action. Fair reflection.  People in the audience are grateful he isn’t going to go into the history.  Lunch is getting cold.  there will be a Fair Reflection/Unity deathmatch later.  Icke’s values are being assaulted with a baseball bat, apparently. If we give Obama any delegates, he will feel raped of his freedom.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Respect the blood!</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73059</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73059</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/when-you-break-for-lunch-at-3pm/#Respond&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fresh Thread …&lt;/a&gt; and an opportunity to begin a fresh dialogue that is civil &amp; respectful …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/when-you-break-for-lunch-at-3pm/#Respond" rel="nofollow">Fresh Thread …</a> and an opportunity to begin a fresh dialogue that is civil &amp; respectful …</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: marymccurnin</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73055</link>
		<dc:creator>marymccurnin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73055</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I didn’t know you knew Howard. Tell him I said hello.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn’t know you knew Howard. Tell him I said hello.</p>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73049</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73049</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m going to have to sic Howard Dean on some commenters here.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m going to have to sic Howard Dean on some commenters here.</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73048</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73048</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;LOL … ((((( mary )))))&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>LOL … ((((( mary )))))<br /></strong></p>
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		<title>By: marymccurnin</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73039</link>
		<dc:creator>marymccurnin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73039</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I looks like myself but I wish myself was 20 pounds lighter.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looks like myself but I wish myself was 20 pounds lighter.</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-73033</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 20:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/the-mi-challenge/#comment-73033</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ROFL&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>ROFL</strong></p>
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