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	<title>Comments on: Howard, This Is Not About You, This Is About Your Country</title>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72734</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 18:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72734</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JMorgan, I don’t have a dog in this hunt. I’m neither pro-Obama or pro-Clinton. I’m looking at the big picture and I’m seeing lots of positives. You can highlight the negatives, but for me, I’ve seen a lot of that and not much of the other, or I wouldn’t have brought it up. We can talk about cup half full or half empty all day. Personally, IMO, the risk of losing to McCain would be stronger if Hillary had pulled out after Super Tuesday. As far as media coverage and marginalizing McCain, I’m only going by what I’ve seen so far and it’s been as I painted it. I’m not being generous at all. Just practical from a newsaholic’s perspective.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JMorgan, I don’t have a dog in this hunt. I’m neither pro-Obama or pro-Clinton. I’m looking at the big picture and I’m seeing lots of positives. You can highlight the negatives, but for me, I’ve seen a lot of that and not much of the other, or I wouldn’t have brought it up. We can talk about cup half full or half empty all day. Personally, IMO, the risk of losing to McCain would be stronger if Hillary had pulled out after Super Tuesday. As far as media coverage and marginalizing McCain, I’m only going by what I’ve seen so far and it’s been as I painted it. I’m not being generous at all. Just practical from a newsaholic’s perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: JMorgan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72699</link>
		<dc:creator>JMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72699</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Audrey, again, just my opinion: This is not the kind of prolonged primary season that the Dems want, or needed after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.  It was the “feel good” of Obama that brought new voters, and not the fractiousness, which there is ample evidence sends voters home.  It turns them off, and it turns off the “good” voters (Obama types, such as the independents and undecideds) versus the voters inclined to vote for Clinton who are the Dem party’s reliables.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In addition, you can’t predict who will turn up for the GE by who voted in the primary, and in this election cycle, there are just too many variables to predict anything.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As far as McCain goes, I think your assessment of his marginalization is extremely generous.  The polls certainly don’t reflect it.  His numbers should be on the negative side, given Bush’s numbers and given that it’s, well, McCain.  Instead, he’s got a real chance of winning, which is just the cherry on top of the nuts on top of the whipped cream over the ice cream and hot fudge of this CrAzY election sundae.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am entertaining my own nightmares as to what may happen by the time Republicans hold their convention, and one of them is that their candidate ultimately is NOT going to be McCain, for whatever reason (sickness, death, etc.) and that we won’t be the only one holding a brokered convention.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Audrey, again, just my opinion: This is not the kind of prolonged primary season that the Dems want, or needed after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.  It was the “feel good” of Obama that brought new voters, and not the fractiousness, which there is ample evidence sends voters home.  It turns them off, and it turns off the “good” voters (Obama types, such as the independents and undecideds) versus the voters inclined to vote for Clinton who are the Dem party’s reliables.</p>
<p>In addition, you can’t predict who will turn up for the GE by who voted in the primary, and in this election cycle, there are just too many variables to predict anything.</p>
<p>As far as McCain goes, I think your assessment of his marginalization is extremely generous.  The polls certainly don’t reflect it.  His numbers should be on the negative side, given Bush’s numbers and given that it’s, well, McCain.  Instead, he’s got a real chance of winning, which is just the cherry on top of the nuts on top of the whipped cream over the ice cream and hot fudge of this CrAzY election sundae.   </p>
<p>I am entertaining my own nightmares as to what may happen by the time Republicans hold their convention, and one of them is that their candidate ultimately is NOT going to be McCain, for whatever reason (sickness, death, etc.) and that we won’t be the only one holding a brokered convention.</p>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72690</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why do you think that, JM?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW: I reposted my comment on the new thread. bmaz agreed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/liveblogging-the-rules-meeting-its-getting-hot-in-here/#comment-1470864&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://firedoglake.com/2008/05.....nt-1470864&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just in case you didn’t know. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you think that, JM?</p>
<p>BTW: I reposted my comment on the new thread. bmaz agreed.<br /><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/liveblogging-the-rules-meeting-its-getting-hot-in-here/#comment-1470864" rel="nofollow">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05&#8230;..nt-1470864</a></p>
<p>Just in case you didn’t know. </p>
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		<title>By: JMorgan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72677</link>
		<dc:creator>JMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72677</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Obama is about to get hosed, me thinks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama is about to get hosed, me thinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72675</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72675</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m sorry it irritates you. The fractiousness on the threads is pretty nauseating, but look at the benefits for the Dems having a prolonged primary season for a minute:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because the campaign is going to every state (except FL &amp; MI) Democrats and others who don’t like the way the nation is going are feeling empowered…maybe for the first time ever. And they’re signing up in droves to vote in the primaries. If they vote in the primaries, they’ll most likely vote in the general. This campaign is changing the party demographic as well as enlivening it. Obama has a ground crew in place to assist this. I think that’s wonderful. Would he have had to work harder as the sole candidate? I think so. Because it would have caused primaries to be run on local issues in many states…not quite as galvanizing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;McCain has been marginalized in the press due to the “bloody” battle between Clinton and Obama. He rarely makes the news unless it’s a scandal and I think that’s awesome too. When it’s not a scandal, he sounds just like Bush. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “all guns blazing” Republican smear machine has had to hold fire until the race is decided. Yes, some shots have been fired, but not enough to matter at this point–except to 28%ers. The longer Obama has to build his campaign, the better off he’ll be.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think the pluses far outweigh the minuses on this issue.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sorry it irritates you. The fractiousness on the threads is pretty nauseating, but look at the benefits for the Dems having a prolonged primary season for a minute:</p>
<p>Because the campaign is going to every state (except FL &amp; MI) Democrats and others who don’t like the way the nation is going are feeling empowered…maybe for the first time ever. And they’re signing up in droves to vote in the primaries. If they vote in the primaries, they’ll most likely vote in the general. This campaign is changing the party demographic as well as enlivening it. Obama has a ground crew in place to assist this. I think that’s wonderful. Would he have had to work harder as the sole candidate? I think so. Because it would have caused primaries to be run on local issues in many states…not quite as galvanizing.</p>
<p>McCain has been marginalized in the press due to the “bloody” battle between Clinton and Obama. He rarely makes the news unless it’s a scandal and I think that’s awesome too. When it’s not a scandal, he sounds just like Bush. </p>
<p>The “all guns blazing” Republican smear machine has had to hold fire until the race is decided. Yes, some shots have been fired, but not enough to matter at this point–except to 28%ers. The longer Obama has to build his campaign, the better off he’ll be.</p>
<p>I think the pluses far outweigh the minuses on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: JMorgan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72674</link>
		<dc:creator>JMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72674</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m watching this on CSpan, and right now, if there is a God in the heavens, I’d love to see that chyron under Carl Levin that says “uncommitted superdelegate” to turn over before our eyes, to “Senator Clinton superdelegate.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What a tool!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m watching this on CSpan, and right now, if there is a God in the heavens, I’d love to see that chyron under Carl Levin that says “uncommitted superdelegate” to turn over before our eyes, to “Senator Clinton superdelegate.”</p>
<p>What a tool!</p>
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		<title>By: AngryB</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72662</link>
		<dc:creator>AngryB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72662</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;sorry messed up -  my point was going to be that the SCOTUS made an exception and selected the POTUS so why can’t the rules committee make an exception!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry messed up &#8211;  my point was going to be that the SCOTUS made an exception and selected the POTUS so why can’t the rules committee make an exception!</p>
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		<title>By: JMorgan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72661</link>
		<dc:creator>JMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72661</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And yours is not an opinion that’s lonely.    There has been some rumored whispers that Obama has all of the superdelegates he needs, that he’s controlling the process and dribbling them out a couple a day.  I’m not one of those who believe this, but there are many who do and I concede it’s possible.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The reason I don’t believe it is because I think it’s harmful in three ways:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1) It’s irritating the hell out of me, and if I’m irritated enough to consider abandoning the Democratic Party forever, people with less patience and less connection to Democratic politics (that would be a goodly number of Obama supporters) are already gone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2) I think it’s dumb, counter-intuitive politics in that it inhibits a unified coalescing of the different groups within the party and a coordinated campaign against Republicans not only at the national level but in state contests.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3) Financially (and is that really what it’s all about?) it’s a nightmare.  The DNC is broke because of this.  $26 million dollars a month ago was all it had on hand, and as long as this campaign continues, contributors are spending their money financing a war between two of its own (Clinton and Obama) instead of spending it against Republicans.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4) It’s extremely risky for Obama to leave this unsettled for the summer.  Not that Clinton’s wildest dreams might be realized (another Rev. Wright in Obama’s closet, or some scandal), but because he’s seen her dirty tactics, he’s been blindsided by them, and he’s no fool.  But while he’s no fool……&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;5) I don’t think Obama is that disciplined a politician.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;6) Obama and his people claim that he doesn’t have them (superdelegates, enough yet to put him over the top), and I take him at his word.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yours is not an opinion that’s lonely.    There has been some rumored whispers that Obama has all of the superdelegates he needs, that he’s controlling the process and dribbling them out a couple a day.  I’m not one of those who believe this, but there are many who do and I concede it’s possible.  </p>
<p>The reason I don’t believe it is because I think it’s harmful in three ways:</p>
<p>1) It’s irritating the hell out of me, and if I’m irritated enough to consider abandoning the Democratic Party forever, people with less patience and less connection to Democratic politics (that would be a goodly number of Obama supporters) are already gone.</p>
<p>2) I think it’s dumb, counter-intuitive politics in that it inhibits a unified coalescing of the different groups within the party and a coordinated campaign against Republicans not only at the national level but in state contests.</p>
<p>3) Financially (and is that really what it’s all about?) it’s a nightmare.  The DNC is broke because of this.  $26 million dollars a month ago was all it had on hand, and as long as this campaign continues, contributors are spending their money financing a war between two of its own (Clinton and Obama) instead of spending it against Republicans.</p>
<p>4) It’s extremely risky for Obama to leave this unsettled for the summer.  Not that Clinton’s wildest dreams might be realized (another Rev. Wright in Obama’s closet, or some scandal), but because he’s seen her dirty tactics, he’s been blindsided by them, and he’s no fool.  But while he’s no fool……</p>
<p>5) I don’t think Obama is that disciplined a politician.  </p>
<p>6) Obama and his people claim that he doesn’t have them (superdelegates, enough yet to put him over the top), and I take him at his word.</p>
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		<title>By: AngryB</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72659</link>
		<dc:creator>AngryB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72659</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The rules committee keep making reference to breaking the prior decisions -&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rules committee keep making reference to breaking the prior decisions -</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/comment-page-2/#comment-72654</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/31/howard-this-is-not-about-you-this-is-about-your-country/#comment-72654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the info.  I not junkie enough to know the inner workings of the party.  I’m an independent, anyhow.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m the treasurer for a candidate trying to unseat Bill Young and Samm Simpson has been doing the cafe-to-cafe bit all along.  We don’t have a lot of money so Samm spends a lot of her time pressing the flesh with the neighborhood groups, etc.  We got a really late start in 06 but ended up with more votes than any other Dem who ever ran against Young.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Never give up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info.  I not junkie enough to know the inner workings of the party.  I’m an independent, anyhow.  </p>
<p>I’m the treasurer for a candidate trying to unseat Bill Young and Samm Simpson has been doing the cafe-to-cafe bit all along.  We don’t have a lot of money so Samm spends a lot of her time pressing the flesh with the neighborhood groups, etc.  We got a really late start in 06 but ended up with more votes than any other Dem who ever ran against Young.</p>
<p>Never give up.</p>
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