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	<title>Comments on: The BAE Bribes Funded Covert Ops</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/</link>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70994</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 01:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70994</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you’re looking at it backwards.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, the telecoms are named defendants in the suits, AT&amp;T above all.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But if you buy Tim Shorrock’s argument (that I’ve extrapolatd from) that one of the big points of immunity is to prevent people from knowing how big this  is, how much contractors and the govt are cooperating, then you have to leave open the possibility that the vacuuming up is just the known front end of this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you buy the Main Core idea, for example, then you go back to Betac as the contractor with the COG contract going back to Reagan. Well, Betac is now owned by Lockheed Martin.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, the bidders for Groundbreaker–a parallel kind of NSA contract, albeit not covert, was usually a DOD contractor with the telecoms as subs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you’re looking at it backwards.</p>
<p>Yes, the telecoms are named defendants in the suits, AT&amp;T above all.</p>
<p>But if you buy Tim Shorrock’s argument (that I’ve extrapolatd from) that one of the big points of immunity is to prevent people from knowing how big this  is, how much contractors and the govt are cooperating, then you have to leave open the possibility that the vacuuming up is just the known front end of this.</p>
<p>If you buy the Main Core idea, for example, then you go back to Betac as the contractor with the COG contract going back to Reagan. Well, Betac is now owned by Lockheed Martin.</p>
<p>Also, the bidders for Groundbreaker–a parallel kind of NSA contract, albeit not covert, was usually a DOD contractor with the telecoms as subs.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70974</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70974</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In addition to LM, which other companies do you believe are most likely to be the trendsetters in $$?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You may well be right, since it looks like &lt;a href=&quot;http://opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00303024&amp;cycle=2008&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;LM has already surpassed 2004 campaign donations&lt;/a&gt;.  Wonder what their lobbying expenses look like…and is it possible that this is an example of a firm to which AT&amp;T may have outsourced both work and risks?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to LM, which other companies do you believe are most likely to be the trendsetters in $$?</p>
<p>You may well be right, since it looks like <a href="http://opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00303024&amp;cycle=2008" rel="nofollow">LM has already surpassed 2004 campaign donations</a>.  Wonder what their lobbying expenses look like…and is it possible that this is an example of a firm to which AT&amp;T may have outsourced both work and risks?</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70907</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70907</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually I would caution against defining this so narrowly as “comm tech.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At least in February, the nearest correlation between donations and Democratic votes in favor of the SSCI bill was donations from Lockheed Martin. All those Dems like Mikulski and Inouye who are otherwise sane who voted for it got LM donations.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I would caution against defining this so narrowly as “comm tech.”</p>
<p>At least in February, the nearest correlation between donations and Democratic votes in favor of the SSCI bill was donations from Lockheed Martin. All those Dems like Mikulski and Inouye who are otherwise sane who voted for it got LM donations.</p>
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		<title>By: MarieRoget</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70856</link>
		<dc:creator>MarieRoget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70856</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Back on topic- Col. Lang has yet another post this a.m. regarding the BAE.  If you enjoy those long graphs, you’ll absolutely love this one:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/05/habakkuk-on-bae.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Habakkuk on BAE, the Saudis and the Slush Fund&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back on topic- Col. Lang has yet another post this a.m. regarding the BAE.  If you enjoy those long graphs, you’ll absolutely love this one:</p>
<p><a href="http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/05/habakkuk-on-bae.html" rel="nofollow">Habakkuk on BAE, the Saudis and the Slush Fund</a></p>
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		<title>By: MarieRoget</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70855</link>
		<dc:creator>MarieRoget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70855</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT- Memorial Day wknd is being observed w/flags waving on every grave @ the Veteran’s Cemetery in Westwood CA, not far from where I live.  Every wknd is a memorial one @ &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.arlingtonwestsantamonica.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arlington West&lt;/a&gt; on Santa Monica beach, where crosses &amp; flag-draped coffins for all the dead service personnel from the ME war are placed in the sand before dawn.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How to honor the fallen men, women, &amp; children on all sides of this senseless conflict, to help the thousands wounded in body &amp; mind, their devastated families?  The only answer occurring to me this morning is to install leadership in DC dedicated to a thorough cleansing of the Fed Gov, solid Dem majorities in both House &amp; Senate, &amp; a subsequent reckoning w/consequences for all to see for those in BushCo who have brought our country such dishonor, &amp; caused such misery these past eight yrs through their corruption, greed, &amp; inhumanity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;End of rant.  For now.&lt;br /&gt;
A Memorial Day vid link- music is Joe Strummer’s version of &lt;em&gt;The Minstrel Boy&lt;/em&gt;, clips are from &lt;em&gt;Baghdad ER&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Life &amp; Death in the War Zone&lt;/em&gt;, &amp; &lt;em&gt;Desert Sky&lt;/em&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikk22B4mH8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Minstrel Boy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT- Memorial Day wknd is being observed w/flags waving on every grave @ the Veteran’s Cemetery in Westwood CA, not far from where I live.  Every wknd is a memorial one @ <a href="http://www.arlingtonwestsantamonica.org/" rel="nofollow">Arlington West</a> on Santa Monica beach, where crosses &amp; flag-draped coffins for all the dead service personnel from the ME war are placed in the sand before dawn.  </p>
<p>How to honor the fallen men, women, &amp; children on all sides of this senseless conflict, to help the thousands wounded in body &amp; mind, their devastated families?  The only answer occurring to me this morning is to install leadership in DC dedicated to a thorough cleansing of the Fed Gov, solid Dem majorities in both House &amp; Senate, &amp; a subsequent reckoning w/consequences for all to see for those in BushCo who have brought our country such dishonor, &amp; caused such misery these past eight yrs through their corruption, greed, &amp; inhumanity.</p>
<p>End of rant.  For now.<br />
A Memorial Day vid link- music is Joe Strummer’s version of <em>The Minstrel Boy</em>, clips are from <em>Baghdad ER</em>, <em>Life &amp; Death in the War Zone</em>, &amp; <em>Desert Sky</em>:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikk22B4mH8" rel="nofollow">The Minstrel Boy</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70854</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70854</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Two things to consider:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;– Note the pattern of election expenditures by the &lt;a href=&quot;http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=B&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Communications industry sector&lt;/a&gt;; you can drill down to the key telecoms by looking at subsets “Telephone Utilities” and “Telecom Services &amp; Equipment”, then selecting the Contributors tab.  Note the difference in campaign donations between 2000, 2004 and 2008; there’s clearly something going on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;– Is pressure being exerted on Congress only in the form of on-the-books transactions?  I’m not referring this time to money being recorded in other functions within the corporate accounts, but to off-the-book entities and extortion.  Enron wasn’t the only company with off-the-book, offshore structures - they were the best example of extravagant use of such resources.  If covert activities using telecoms have been ordered and funded by off-the-book, covert entities and funds, how do we know that these same resources haven’t brought to bear?  Or that extortion, plain and simple, using the data gathered by the telecoms, hasn’t been applied?  It can be pretty efficient; costs a lot less to send one guy into a key meeting and make a soft-spoken, veiled threat, than to pony up money for lots of lobbying staff and campaign donations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And now I’ve thought of a third rationale for all the money not being laid out where we can see it: perhaps the telecoms are simply hording cash against the claims they expect, resistance being seen as futile?  Explains the trend in campaign donations; why give as much money as in the past to people you expect to indict you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things to consider:</p>
<p>– Note the pattern of election expenditures by the <a href="http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=B" rel="nofollow">Communications industry sector</a>; you can drill down to the key telecoms by looking at subsets “Telephone Utilities” and “Telecom Services &amp; Equipment”, then selecting the Contributors tab.  Note the difference in campaign donations between 2000, 2004 and 2008; there’s clearly something going on.</p>
<p>– Is pressure being exerted on Congress only in the form of on-the-books transactions?  I’m not referring this time to money being recorded in other functions within the corporate accounts, but to off-the-book entities and extortion.  Enron wasn’t the only company with off-the-book, offshore structures &#8211; they were the best example of extravagant use of such resources.  If covert activities using telecoms have been ordered and funded by off-the-book, covert entities and funds, how do we know that these same resources haven’t brought to bear?  Or that extortion, plain and simple, using the data gathered by the telecoms, hasn’t been applied?  It can be pretty efficient; costs a lot less to send one guy into a key meeting and make a soft-spoken, veiled threat, than to pony up money for lots of lobbying staff and campaign donations.</p>
<p>And now I’ve thought of a third rationale for all the money not being laid out where we can see it: perhaps the telecoms are simply hording cash against the claims they expect, resistance being seen as futile?  Explains the trend in campaign donations; why give as much money as in the past to people you expect to indict you.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70852</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 04:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70852</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Excellent point; but I didn’t intend to infer any differently.  The ancillary means of leveraging their money for influence you describe are extant irrespective of the current FISA situation.  As are the lobbying expenditures being contemplated by Greenwald and Digby.  But my point now and previously is that there is no known evidence nor indicator that there is any heightened out flow of resources commensurate with some aggressive desperate push by the telcos that you would expect if they were at anywhere near the risk that has been implied and bandied about by the Bush Administration and immunity advocates.  Crikey the three main telcos, through their counsel, all wrote letters basically confirming it at one point.  I understand what you are saying. but where is the evidence that any of those other modalities are elevated either?  It just doesn’t really look like what we are being told it is.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point; but I didn’t intend to infer any differently.  The ancillary means of leveraging their money for influence you describe are extant irrespective of the current FISA situation.  As are the lobbying expenditures being contemplated by Greenwald and Digby.  But my point now and previously is that there is no known evidence nor indicator that there is any heightened out flow of resources commensurate with some aggressive desperate push by the telcos that you would expect if they were at anywhere near the risk that has been implied and bandied about by the Bush Administration and immunity advocates.  Crikey the three main telcos, through their counsel, all wrote letters basically confirming it at one point.  I understand what you are saying. but where is the evidence that any of those other modalities are elevated either?  It just doesn’t really look like what we are being told it is.</p>
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		<title>By: watercarrier4diogenes</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70851</link>
		<dc:creator>watercarrier4diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 03:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70851</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A funny take on McSame’s Phoenix fundraiser problem:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://mikk2.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/maybe-dennys-has-a-small-room-in-the-back/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Maybe Denny’s has a small room in the back…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A funny take on McSame’s Phoenix fundraiser problem:</p>
<p><a href="http://mikk2.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/maybe-dennys-has-a-small-room-in-the-back/" rel="nofollow">Maybe Denny’s has a small room in the back…</a></p>
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		<title>By: pdaly</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70850</link>
		<dc:creator>pdaly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 01:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70850</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Via the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.startribune.com/politics/19174504.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Star Tribune&lt;/a&gt;, citizen Ed Felien wants Bush to be arrested in August 2008 when his plane lands in Hennepin County to attend the GOP convention in Minnesota. Felien, a former Minneapolis City Council memember and peace activist has &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.southsidepride.com/2008/04/articles/writ.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;petitioned&lt;/a&gt; the Hennepin County Attorney for a writ of mandamus. It amuses me that a community would try what Congress fails to do: hold Bush accountable. I doubt much will come of it, but if nothing else, the petition lists a bill of particulars that address illegal acts Bush has done against the local community.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Whereas there is probable cause to believe George W. Bush is guilty of murder in the third degree through his wanton disregard of human life in his pursuit of profits for his family’s business, thereby ending the lives of Hennepin County residents David Day, Robert Dixon and Scott Modeen, and&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whereas there is probable cause to believe that George W. Bush and the Saudi royal family have entered into a conspiracy to withhold oil supplies and raise the price of crude oil causing gasoline prices to dramatically increase in Hennepin County, and&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whereas there is probable cause to believe that George W. Bush has acted in collusion with the opium warlords of Afghanistan and elements within the CIA to distribute heroin in Europe,the United States and Hennepin County,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Therefore, the petitioner asks this court to order Hennepin County Attorney Michael Freeman to bring charges of Murder in the Third Degree, Section 609.195; Conspiracy to fix prices,Section 325D.51; and Conspiracy to distribute drugs, Section 609.228 against George W. Bush&lt;br /&gt;
and present them to a Grand Jury so that a Grand Jury may return a Bill of Indictment and George W. Bush may be arrested and made to stand trial when his plane lands in Hennepin County at the end of August.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Respectfully submitted,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ed Felien&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Minneapolis, MN 55407&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The petition, in addition to listing the above, takes a running stroll through the history of the OSS/CIA, Skull &amp; Bones, Bush family ties to war profiteering with Nazis among other misadventures. Perhaps not the most helpful to the case at hand but nice of him to collect these things in one place to provide citizens some context.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via the <a href="http://www.startribune.com/politics/19174504.html" rel="nofollow">Star Tribune</a>, citizen Ed Felien wants Bush to be arrested in August 2008 when his plane lands in Hennepin County to attend the GOP convention in Minnesota. Felien, a former Minneapolis City Council memember and peace activist has <a href="http://www.southsidepride.com/2008/04/articles/writ.html" rel="nofollow">petitioned</a> the Hennepin County Attorney for a writ of mandamus. It amuses me that a community would try what Congress fails to do: hold Bush accountable. I doubt much will come of it, but if nothing else, the petition lists a bill of particulars that address illegal acts Bush has done against the local community.</p>
<blockquote><p>Whereas there is probable cause to believe George W. Bush is guilty of murder in the third degree through his wanton disregard of human life in his pursuit of profits for his family’s business, thereby ending the lives of Hennepin County residents David Day, Robert Dixon and Scott Modeen, and</p>
<p>Whereas there is probable cause to believe that George W. Bush and the Saudi royal family have entered into a conspiracy to withhold oil supplies and raise the price of crude oil causing gasoline prices to dramatically increase in Hennepin County, and</p>
<p>Whereas there is probable cause to believe that George W. Bush has acted in collusion with the opium warlords of Afghanistan and elements within the CIA to distribute heroin in Europe,the United States and Hennepin County,</p>
<p>Therefore, the petitioner asks this court to order Hennepin County Attorney Michael Freeman to bring charges of Murder in the Third Degree, Section 609.195; Conspiracy to fix prices,Section 325D.51; and Conspiracy to distribute drugs, Section 609.228 against George W. Bush<br />
and present them to a Grand Jury so that a Grand Jury may return a Bill of Indictment and George W. Bush may be arrested and made to stand trial when his plane lands in Hennepin County at the end of August.</p>
<p>Respectfully submitted,</p>
<p>Ed Felien</p>
<p>Minneapolis, MN 55407</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The petition, in addition to listing the above, takes a running stroll through the history of the OSS/CIA, Skull &amp; Bones, Bush family ties to war profiteering with Nazis among other misadventures. Perhaps not the most helpful to the case at hand but nice of him to collect these things in one place to provide citizens some context.</p>
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		<title>By: behindthefall</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/comment-page-1/#comment-70849</link>
		<dc:creator>behindthefall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 00:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/23/the-bae-bribes-funded-covert-ops/#comment-70849</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Haven’t read the thread piece by piece, but has anyone brought up that incident where the military on the scene had Bn Laden in their sights, quite literally, in Afghanistan, asked for permission to fire, and were directed NOT to fire?  THAT has always begged for a few hooks to tie it into the rest of the picture, to me at least.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven’t read the thread piece by piece, but has anyone brought up that incident where the military on the scene had Bn Laden in their sights, quite literally, in Afghanistan, asked for permission to fire, and were directed NOT to fire?  THAT has always begged for a few hooks to tie it into the rest of the picture, to me at least.</p>
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