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	<title>Comments on: Politicizing Show Trials at the Same Time as Politicizing DOJ</title>
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		<title>By: watercarrier4diogenes</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68532</link>
		<dc:creator>watercarrier4diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 03:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Many thanks for all the links, John.  Fantastic ROI for my humble investment. 8^)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;yours, wc4d (which I prefer to ‘wc’, for obvious reasons *g* )&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for all the links, John.  Fantastic ROI for my humble investment. 8^)</p>
<p>yours, wc4d (which I prefer to ‘wc’, for obvious reasons *g* )</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68507</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 00:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;H2Ocarrier4D, I started reading that link you provided to the CBS report on Gitmo inhumane treatment.  Also, following some comments about the Australian set free, there is one new discussion of how the recent &lt;a&gt;Allred ruling’s divulgations&lt;/a&gt; would strengthen a human rights violation case if the exprisoner ever decides to bring a complaint on that approach.  TheAustralian news site has a lot of material on the exprisoner, including evidently some fervid diaries that might bolster an argument that he had joined the movement which is anathema to US polity, and perhaps inimical to it as well, but also, surprisingly, TheAustralian published around the same time as the CBS linked report, a chronicle by Hicks of some explicit torture incidents which occurred to him and other ‘executive detainees’ at Gitmo; the document by Hicks is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21516985-601,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;extensive, and more explicit&lt;/a&gt; than any writing I have seen on the topic, though there is a photographic website in Southeast Asia that has the AbuGhraib images.  Also, since this is on the abuse instead of the thread basic topic of the facilitating overlay of political theater which enabled torture, it is probably worth adding a link here to Conyers’ pointwise but abbreviated summary of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://judiciary.house.gov/newscenter.aspx?A=965&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Phillipe Sands’ testimony&lt;/a&gt; last week.  Wrapping up, for those who key to the jargon of the law trade and are familiar with &lt;em&gt;mens rea&lt;/em&gt;, there is this &lt;a href=&quot;http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/Cohn080506.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;abbreviated presentation by the Marjorie Cohn&lt;/a&gt; in a hearing last week addressing the issue of &lt;em&gt;jus cogens&lt;/em&gt;, which is a way of saying the torture memos authors were too smart to be able to say now credibly they were unaware of the vast body of law and treaties banning the abuse programs whose formulating papers they developed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H2Ocarrier4D, I started reading that link you provided to the CBS report on Gitmo inhumane treatment.  Also, following some comments about the Australian set free, there is one new discussion of how the recent <a>Allred ruling’s divulgations</a> would strengthen a human rights violation case if the exprisoner ever decides to bring a complaint on that approach.  TheAustralian news site has a lot of material on the exprisoner, including evidently some fervid diaries that might bolster an argument that he had joined the movement which is anathema to US polity, and perhaps inimical to it as well, but also, surprisingly, TheAustralian published around the same time as the CBS linked report, a chronicle by Hicks of some explicit torture incidents which occurred to him and other ‘executive detainees’ at Gitmo; the document by Hicks is <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21516985-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">extensive, and more explicit</a> than any writing I have seen on the topic, though there is a photographic website in Southeast Asia that has the AbuGhraib images.  Also, since this is on the abuse instead of the thread basic topic of the facilitating overlay of political theater which enabled torture, it is probably worth adding a link here to Conyers’ pointwise but abbreviated summary of the <a href="http://judiciary.house.gov/newscenter.aspx?A=965" rel="nofollow">Phillipe Sands’ testimony</a> last week.  Wrapping up, for those who key to the jargon of the law trade and are familiar with <em>mens rea</em>, there is this <a href="http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/Cohn080506.pdf" rel="nofollow">abbreviated presentation by the Marjorie Cohn</a> in a hearing last week addressing the issue of <em>jus cogens</em>, which is a way of saying the torture memos authors were too smart to be able to say now credibly they were unaware of the vast body of law and treaties banning the abuse programs whose formulating papers they developed.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68488</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68488</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I should have added from a TPM commenter,&lt;br /&gt;
Blue in Texas, several Daily Kos diaries are mining a link between Scott Bloch and Don Siegelman’s prosecution.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also should add with all due respect to Michigan that John Conyers and his subpoenas which never go anywhere, are becoming a characture of themselves.  They don’t mean jack when they are launched at government or former government officials who seem to have implied immunity from them.  They only have impact when they are directed at Little Joe and Kathy Schmoe Nobody.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have added from a TPM commenter,<br />
Blue in Texas, several Daily Kos diaries are mining a link between Scott Bloch and Don Siegelman’s prosecution.</p>
<p>I also should add with all due respect to Michigan that John Conyers and his subpoenas which never go anywhere, are becoming a characture of themselves.  They don’t mean jack when they are launched at government or former government officials who seem to have implied immunity from them.  They only have impact when they are directed at Little Joe and Kathy Schmoe Nobody.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68487</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Off Da Topic, but Conyers has been threatening Stonewall McCasey with a subpoena for the selective prosecution documents at DOJ–most documents at DOJ for hundreds of years would fit that discription.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/conyers_threatens_subpoenas_fo.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Conyers Threatens Subpoenas for DoJ Selective Prosecution Documents&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem is a subpoena from Conyers has as much meaning as a Supreme Court oral argument by Miley Cyrus.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off Da Topic, but Conyers has been threatening Stonewall McCasey with a subpoena for the selective prosecution documents at DOJ–most documents at DOJ for hundreds of years would fit that discription.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/conyers_threatens_subpoenas_fo.php" rel="nofollow">Conyers Threatens Subpoenas for DoJ Selective Prosecution Documents</a></strong></p>
<p>The problem is a subpoena from Conyers has as much meaning as a Supreme Court oral argument by Miley Cyrus.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68434</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68434</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;70 - I missed that - thanks.  I’m not sure how many times Fitzgerald and the Court can flat out say that his delegation was always subject to being rescinded or modified at any time and at the will and whim of the Acting Attorney General, and that the Acting Attorney General had continuing ability to revise the authority granted (even in secret, like a pixie dust EO revisions) and that the authority delegated “for the purpose of promoting the perception of independence” was “at all time subject to revocation and modification” before someone clears the decks and asks if it ever WAS modified or rescinded, in whole or in part. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s interesting, too, that he makes the point of claiming he was nired to make reports to the Acting Atty Gen, since I’m not sure that was truly decided at any point and Walton seemed a little doubtful on that point in the oral argument, but pretty much dismissed it as irrelevant since Fitzgerald HAD reported to Margolis prior to charges going in against Libby.  I’ve always wondered why he made such a point of it in the oral argument, with limited time, and now here he brings it up again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Both of those things are probably nothing, but I hate not having the i’s dotted and t’s crossed.  When he then goes on, yet again, to discuss his authority in terms of “perception” of independence and not acutal independence, then on p. 4 says:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“While these provisions … subject a Special Counsel … to greater ongoing supervision than I was subject to … it must  be remembered that it was the Acting Attorney General’s stated intent that the terms of the delegation to me maximize the perception of independent decision making.  That said, the terms of the delegation to me as Special Counsel … allowed the delegation to be revoked or modified at will, including by requiring reports or consultations”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have to admit, I go back to what I was raising back at the end of the trial with wondering if his delegation did get modified. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fitzgerald also, in his otherwise pretty thorough treatment of the differences with outside Special Counsel (and in a response that had to be cleared by DOJ I would guess) also leaves out completely the requirements in the outside special counsel regs that, while the AG can overrule spec counsel decisions, the AG must report to Congress about the instances where special counsel is overruled.  And so he never really says whether or not, if the AG modified the inhouse delegation so as to overrule an inhouse special counsel, there is any notice to Congress requirement. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interesting stuff and a lot of it going towards the theme of ‘trust the DOJ it will do the right thing’ which I have to admit, I take with a lot of skepticism, given the unmitigated and unstinting advocacy for disappearing and torture the uncharged, bought and not taken on a battlefield, and the family members oand children of the uncharged as well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rove lied over and over, Fitzgerald came across reams of email issues about which nothing was done for years and is still not going to be done, and so it all goes on.   I think he did a lot with what he had, but the problems of inhousing an investigation were there at the beginning and still there at the end.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>70 &#8211; I missed that &#8211; thanks.  I’m not sure how many times Fitzgerald and the Court can flat out say that his delegation was always subject to being rescinded or modified at any time and at the will and whim of the Acting Attorney General, and that the Acting Attorney General had continuing ability to revise the authority granted (even in secret, like a pixie dust EO revisions) and that the authority delegated “for the purpose of promoting the perception of independence” was “at all time subject to revocation and modification” before someone clears the decks and asks if it ever WAS modified or rescinded, in whole or in part. </p>
<p>It’s interesting, too, that he makes the point of claiming he was nired to make reports to the Acting Atty Gen, since I’m not sure that was truly decided at any point and Walton seemed a little doubtful on that point in the oral argument, but pretty much dismissed it as irrelevant since Fitzgerald HAD reported to Margolis prior to charges going in against Libby.  I’ve always wondered why he made such a point of it in the oral argument, with limited time, and now here he brings it up again.</p>
<p>Both of those things are probably nothing, but I hate not having the i’s dotted and t’s crossed.  When he then goes on, yet again, to discuss his authority in terms of “perception” of independence and not acutal independence, then on p. 4 says:</p>
<p>“While these provisions … subject a Special Counsel … to greater ongoing supervision than I was subject to … it must  be remembered that it was the Acting Attorney General’s stated intent that the terms of the delegation to me maximize the perception of independent decision making.  That said, the terms of the delegation to me as Special Counsel … allowed the delegation to be revoked or modified at will, including by requiring reports or consultations”</p>
<p>I have to admit, I go back to what I was raising back at the end of the trial with wondering if his delegation did get modified. </p>
<p>Fitzgerald also, in his otherwise pretty thorough treatment of the differences with outside Special Counsel (and in a response that had to be cleared by DOJ I would guess) also leaves out completely the requirements in the outside special counsel regs that, while the AG can overrule spec counsel decisions, the AG must report to Congress about the instances where special counsel is overruled.  And so he never really says whether or not, if the AG modified the inhouse delegation so as to overrule an inhouse special counsel, there is any notice to Congress requirement. </p>
<p>Interesting stuff and a lot of it going towards the theme of ‘trust the DOJ it will do the right thing’ which I have to admit, I take with a lot of skepticism, given the unmitigated and unstinting advocacy for disappearing and torture the uncharged, bought and not taken on a battlefield, and the family members oand children of the uncharged as well.</p>
<p>Rove lied over and over, Fitzgerald came across reams of email issues about which nothing was done for years and is still not going to be done, and so it all goes on.   I think he did a lot with what he had, but the problems of inhousing an investigation were there at the beginning and still there at the end.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68433</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68433</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thx, here’s hoping it’s symptomatic of a rather large shark fin.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx, here’s hoping it’s symptomatic of a rather large shark fin.</p>
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		<title>By: scribe</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68431</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Try &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/pr/press_releases/2008/04/04-30-08_doj-announcement.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link for the official announcement&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or, just google “Alice Fisher resign” and scroll down two or three items.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try <a href="http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/pr/press_releases/2008/04/04-30-08_doj-announcement.pdf" rel="nofollow">this link for the official announcement</a>.</p>
<p>Or, just google “Alice Fisher resign” and scroll down two or three items.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68430</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68430</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, between he and Larry Craig, the GOP continues to control people through fear:  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;there are rumors his personal life has made keeping him there easy.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sexual orientation should have zero influence on job performance.&lt;br /&gt;
The GOP reveals its dark side by ‘keeping people in line’ through fear of exposure.  Archaic.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, between he and Larry Craig, the GOP continues to control people through fear:  </p>
<blockquote><p>there are rumors his personal life has made keeping him there easy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sexual orientation should have zero influence on job performance.<br />
The GOP reveals its dark side by ‘keeping people in line’ through fear of exposure.  Archaic.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68429</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68429</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;scribe, when you have a minute would you be so kind as to repost that link, please? Seems incorrect.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On Swift being forced out of the military, see:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://mustv.com/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6256039&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mustv.com/templates/sto.....Id=6256039&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003294468_lawyer08.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....yer08.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>scribe, when you have a minute would you be so kind as to repost that link, please? Seems incorrect.</p>
<p>On Swift being forced out of the military, see:<br />
<a href="http://mustv.com/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6256039" rel="nofollow">http://mustv.com/templates/sto&#8230;..Id=6256039</a><br />
<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003294468_lawyer08.html" rel="nofollow">http://seattletimes.nwsource.c&#8230;..yer08.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: scribe</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/comment-page-1/#comment-68428</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/politicizing-show-trials-at-the-same-time-as-politicizing-doj/#comment-68428</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/commentary-war-crimes-trial-and-outside-pressure/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here’s a good post on this opinion and its implications over on SCOTUSBlog&lt;/a&gt;, which, BTW, has done yeoman work on the DC Circuit and Supreme Court aspects of these cases since their respective beginnings.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, Minnesotacuck @77 - I was aware for a long time about Graham’s anomalous status as both a military officer (specifically an AF judge) and a Senator.  Indeed, a case could be made that he is violating federal law and/or military regulations by being both.  There exists a statute (I cannot find it quickly, but have read it) and each service enacts regulations implementing it, which state (in so many words) that any officer who is sworn in to be a member of Congress shall (the mandatory “shall”) resign their commission.  It’s a separation of powers issue.  During Vietnam there was some litigation over this, against (among others) Goldwater (who was an Air Force reserve one-star General), the allegation being that the Congress-critters who were also holding commissions were beholden to the Executive such that they could not be holding both offices at the same time, but IIRC those cases were dismissed for lack of standing.&lt;br /&gt;
The same kind of issue arose during the first Gulf War, when a federal judge (who also was a reserve JAG) was called up for duty and left the bench to go play soldier for a while, but came back about 2 weeks later having (IIRC) resigned his military commission rather than give up his lifetime judgeship.&lt;br /&gt;
Graham’s been in the thugs’ pocket (if not actively one of them) for a long time;  there are rumors his personal life has made keeping him there easy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/commentary-war-crimes-trial-and-outside-pressure/" rel="nofollow">Here’s a good post on this opinion and its implications over on SCOTUSBlog</a>, which, BTW, has done yeoman work on the DC Circuit and Supreme Court aspects of these cases since their respective beginnings.</p>
<p>And, Minnesotacuck @77 &#8211; I was aware for a long time about Graham’s anomalous status as both a military officer (specifically an AF judge) and a Senator.  Indeed, a case could be made that he is violating federal law and/or military regulations by being both.  There exists a statute (I cannot find it quickly, but have read it) and each service enacts regulations implementing it, which state (in so many words) that any officer who is sworn in to be a member of Congress shall (the mandatory “shall”) resign their commission.  It’s a separation of powers issue.  During Vietnam there was some litigation over this, against (among others) Goldwater (who was an Air Force reserve one-star General), the allegation being that the Congress-critters who were also holding commissions were beholden to the Executive such that they could not be holding both offices at the same time, but IIRC those cases were dismissed for lack of standing.<br />
The same kind of issue arose during the first Gulf War, when a federal judge (who also was a reserve JAG) was called up for duty and left the bench to go play soldier for a while, but came back about 2 weeks later having (IIRC) resigned his military commission rather than give up his lifetime judgeship.<br />
Graham’s been in the thugs’ pocket (if not actively one of them) for a long time;  there are rumors his personal life has made keeping him there easy.</p>
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