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	<title>Comments on: Bloch: Stop Making Sense</title>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68313</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 18:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68313</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you may just have to use this as the archive.&lt;br /&gt;
I’m totally with you on the 3D w/ audio w/ tracking interfaces.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What most deeply bothers me is that there *are* evil people in this world.&lt;br /&gt;
Ethically challenged fools are the least qualified to protect anyone from genuinely dangerous people.&lt;br /&gt;
Very distressing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you may just have to use this as the archive.<br />
I’m totally with you on the 3D w/ audio w/ tracking interfaces.</p>
<p>What most deeply bothers me is that there *are* evil people in this world.<br />
Ethically challenged fools are the least qualified to protect anyone from genuinely dangerous people.<br />
Very distressing.</p>
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		<title>By: sailmaker</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68151</link>
		<dc:creator>sailmaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 19:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68151</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow. Thanks.  Those are big enough dots that even I can connect ‘em.  Is there an archive that your post could be placed in?  I have a few printouts of  EWs timelines, but I haven’t figured out how to cross reference them, and this info could be useful to lots of people. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The white board is a great idea, although for this crew maybe we need some sort of 3d animation with audio to keep track of the players and scandals.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Thanks.  Those are big enough dots that even I can connect ‘em.  Is there an archive that your post could be placed in?  I have a few printouts of  EWs timelines, but I haven’t figured out how to cross reference them, and this info could be useful to lots of people. </p>
<p>The white board is a great idea, although for this crew maybe we need some sort of 3d animation with audio to keep track of the players and scandals.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68142</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 18:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68142</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yep, it’s confusing.&lt;br /&gt;
Here are a few notes (and I think they’re accurate):&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Two Alices:&lt;br /&gt;
———–&lt;br /&gt;
Alice #1 - FISHER — DC, DoJ Criminal Division&lt;br /&gt;
Alice &lt;strong&gt;Fisher&lt;/strong&gt; became DoJ Head of Criminal Division after Chertoff left to go to Homeland Security; see more below on several issues, including her priority on prosecuting former [Dem] Gov Siegelman in AL. His prosecution was driven via a subgroup within DoJ Criminal Div called the Office of Public Integrity. This agency also prosecuted other Dem elected officials, as well as some key Dem campaign donors.&lt;br /&gt;
Think of a map of USA and draw an arrow heading south –&gt; from FISHER in DC down to –&gt; Alabama, where we find Alice #2.&lt;br /&gt;
————–&lt;br /&gt;
Alice #2 MARTIN - Alabama&lt;br /&gt;
Alice &lt;strong&gt;Martin&lt;/strong&gt; is a USAG for Norhern Alabama, a driver in the Siegelman case(s).  On that map of the USA, draw an arrow from Alabama &lt; -- north to Alice Fisher in DC whenever Martin &lt;-- reported updates on her progress prosecuting Siegelman&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Fisher&lt;/strong&gt; = supervisor of politicized prosecutions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;Martin&lt;/strong&gt; = willing worker bee implementing politicized prosecutions.&lt;br /&gt;
————————–&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Under Ashcroft, Michael Chertoff was head of DoJ Criminal Division.&lt;br /&gt;
Alice &lt;strong&gt;Fisher&lt;/strong&gt; reported to Chertoff in Criminal Division.&lt;br /&gt;
Within Criminal Division, Chertoff named Noel Hillman, whom he was grooming, to oversee Dept Public Integrity (dealing with elected officials).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Chertoff, Fisher, and Hillman were &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; in communication with the WH regarding Siegelman prosecutions.  There were probably at least two motives:&lt;br /&gt;
1. Get rid of Siegelman (Dem) while installing Riley as Gov.&lt;br /&gt;
2. Use Siegelman prosecution &lt;em&gt;as a means to divert attention and investigative resources from all the Chocktaw casino money being funneled (via Abramoff) to Rove, GOP, and Riley.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It was a double-hitter for the GOP: by putting prosecution resources into Siegelman, they took attention away from Abramoff/casino money laundering and GOP fundraising.  (For more see: Rove, k-k-k-karl.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;——————–&lt;br /&gt;
Chertoff, Fisher, and Hillman also prosecuted several key Dem campaign donors, but that’s another entire thread.&lt;br /&gt;
The point is that they wouldn’t investigate Abramoff’s casino revenue, KStreet operation, and money laundering but they could prosecute Hillary Clinton’s donors? And prosecute John Edwards’ donors?&lt;br /&gt;
That’s a whole other rat’s nest, but EW has also covered this topic in the past.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;—————–&lt;br /&gt;
After several years, Chertoff went to Homeland Security.&lt;br /&gt;
Alice &lt;strong&gt;Fisher&lt;/strong&gt; replaced Chertoff as head of Criminal Division, which included overseeing Office of Public Integrity (where Alice &lt;strong&gt;Martin&lt;/strong&gt; would have reported her progress on prosecuting Gov Don Siegelman.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Meanwhile, Noel Hillman was appt to US Court in NJ.&lt;br /&gt;
He was up for a ‘promotion’ to the US Third Circuit around the time the USAG firings hit the news; the WH pulled his nomination.&lt;br /&gt;
Not likely a coincidence; one of the few silver linings so far.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;————————–&lt;br /&gt;
Alice &lt;strong&gt;FISHER&lt;/strong&gt; and the Torture Memos at DoJ&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Before Chertoff left DoJ, both he and Fisher worked in the DoJ group (with Yoo) on developing torture memos. Glenn Fine was not allowed to investigate that — see more from klynn @ 63.  Or Horton at Harper’s.  Or NYT/Lictblau.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;———————————-&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Many  more linkages; this thing is a veritable Gordion’s Knot of ideology, deception, double-talk, and hubris, but that’s all I have time for right now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry to confuse earlier.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Fisher&lt;/strong&gt; supervised and coordinated on the Siegelman prosecution with Rove/WH in DC, and (via Hillman) with &lt;strong&gt;Martin&lt;/strong&gt; in Alabama.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m 90% confident that I have the linkages correct; would be so much easier if EW had a White Board on this blog.  But I can’t complain; I’m just glad it’s here at all.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, it’s confusing.<br />
Here are a few notes (and I think they’re accurate):</p>
<p>Two Alices:<br />
———–<br />
Alice #1 &#8211; FISHER — DC, DoJ Criminal Division<br />
Alice <strong>Fisher</strong> became DoJ Head of Criminal Division after Chertoff left to go to Homeland Security; see more below on several issues, including her priority on prosecuting former [Dem] Gov Siegelman in AL. His prosecution was driven via a subgroup within DoJ Criminal Div called the Office of Public Integrity. This agency also prosecuted other Dem elected officials, as well as some key Dem campaign donors.<br />
Think of a map of USA and draw an arrow heading south –&gt; from FISHER in DC down to –&gt; Alabama, where we find Alice #2.<br />
————–<br />
Alice #2 MARTIN &#8211; Alabama<br />
Alice <strong>Martin</strong> is a USAG for Norhern Alabama, a driver in the Siegelman case(s).  On that map of the USA, draw an arrow from Alabama &lt; &#8212; north to Alice Fisher in DC whenever Martin &lt;&#8211; reported updates on her progress prosecuting Siegelman&lt;/p&gt;
</p>
<p><strong>Fisher</strong> = supervisor of politicized prosecutions<br />
<strong>Martin</strong> = willing worker bee implementing politicized prosecutions.<br />
————————–</p>
<p>Under Ashcroft, Michael Chertoff was head of DoJ Criminal Division.<br />
Alice <strong>Fisher</strong> reported to Chertoff in Criminal Division.<br />
Within Criminal Division, Chertoff named Noel Hillman, whom he was grooming, to oversee Dept Public Integrity (dealing with elected officials).</p>
<p>Chertoff, Fisher, and Hillman were <em>all</em> in communication with the WH regarding Siegelman prosecutions.  There were probably at least two motives:<br />
1. Get rid of Siegelman (Dem) while installing Riley as Gov.<br />
2. Use Siegelman prosecution <em>as a means to divert attention and investigative resources from all the Chocktaw casino money being funneled (via Abramoff) to Rove, GOP, and Riley.</em><br />
It was a double-hitter for the GOP: by putting prosecution resources into Siegelman, they took attention away from Abramoff/casino money laundering and GOP fundraising.  (For more see: Rove, k-k-k-karl.)</p>
<p>——————–<br />
Chertoff, Fisher, and Hillman also prosecuted several key Dem campaign donors, but that’s another entire thread.<br />
The point is that they wouldn’t investigate Abramoff’s casino revenue, KStreet operation, and money laundering but they could prosecute Hillary Clinton’s donors? And prosecute John Edwards’ donors?<br />
That’s a whole other rat’s nest, but EW has also covered this topic in the past.</p>
<p>—————–<br />
After several years, Chertoff went to Homeland Security.<br />
Alice <strong>Fisher</strong> replaced Chertoff as head of Criminal Division, which included overseeing Office of Public Integrity (where Alice <strong>Martin</strong> would have reported her progress on prosecuting Gov Don Siegelman.)</p>
<p>Meanwhile, Noel Hillman was appt to US Court in NJ.<br />
He was up for a ‘promotion’ to the US Third Circuit around the time the USAG firings hit the news; the WH pulled his nomination.<br />
Not likely a coincidence; one of the few silver linings so far.</p>
<p>————————–<br />
Alice <strong>FISHER</strong> and the Torture Memos at DoJ</p>
<p>Before Chertoff left DoJ, both he and Fisher worked in the DoJ group (with Yoo) on developing torture memos. Glenn Fine was not allowed to investigate that — see more from klynn @ 63.  Or Horton at Harper’s.  Or NYT/Lictblau.</p>
<p>———————————-</p>
<p>Many  more linkages; this thing is a veritable Gordion’s Knot of ideology, deception, double-talk, and hubris, but that’s all I have time for right now.</p>
<p>Sorry to confuse earlier.</p>
<p><strong>Fisher</strong> supervised and coordinated on the Siegelman prosecution with Rove/WH in DC, and (via Hillman) with <strong>Martin</strong> in Alabama.</p>
<p>I’m 90% confident that I have the linkages correct; would be so much easier if EW had a White Board on this blog.  But I can’t complain; I’m just glad it’s here at all.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68118</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, geez… I’ll have to go look later.&lt;br /&gt;
Shorter: I really needed to catch up on my sleep, rather than posting that late in the evening.&lt;br /&gt;
Apologies.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, geez… I’ll have to go look later.<br />
Shorter: I really needed to catch up on my sleep, rather than posting that late in the evening.<br />
Apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ishmael</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68108</link>
		<dc:creator>Ishmael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68108</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good morning all,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seems EW and I were both away at the same time - I just got back to the Great White North from a trip to the People’s Republic of Vermont - which I have discovered is more Canadian than Canada in some respects! - and many posts to read…..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning all,</p>
<p>Seems EW and I were both away at the same time &#8211; I just got back to the Great White North from a trip to the People’s Republic of Vermont &#8211; which I have discovered is more Canadian than Canada in some respects! &#8211; and many posts to read…..</p>
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		<title>By: garyg</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68107</link>
		<dc:creator>garyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68107</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Given Bloch’s right wing religious status &amp; secret hiding place:&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder where he found an 8″ long, onyx black vibrating “thumb drive”?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Surely there’s a GOoPer tech shop to satisfy that niche market.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given Bloch’s right wing religious status &amp; secret hiding place:<br />
I wonder where he found an 8″ long, onyx black vibrating “thumb drive”?</p>
<p>Surely there’s a GOoPer tech shop to satisfy that niche market.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68106</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68106</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This quote from that article was good:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Turley called Matsch’s ruling “a small victory” because some documents were released. But he said his clients are considering another court appeal for the transcripts and list of allegations. He said the group plans to ask Colorado’s congressional delegation to subpoena the documents.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Then they can see what motivated the grand jurors and they can make them public,” Turley said.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This quote from that article was good:</p>
<blockquote><p>Turley called Matsch’s ruling “a small victory” because some documents were released. But he said his clients are considering another court appeal for the transcripts and list of allegations. He said the group plans to ask Colorado’s congressional delegation to subpoena the documents.</p>
<p>“Then they can see what motivated the grand jurors and they can make them public,” Turley said.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68105</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68105</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;bmaz did you see this from AP?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;A judge has refused to make public some sworn statements by former grand jurors alleging that prosecutors committed misconduct during an investigation into possible environmental crimes at the old Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch released several documents and motions from the 1989 case Monday but not the sworn statements or a list of alleged misconduct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some former members of the grand jury have alleged the Justice Department broke the law during the probe and cut a deal with plant’s operator, Rockwell International, for an $18.5 million fine. Prosecutors have denied misconduct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Matsch allowed the jurors in 1997 to create a list of alleged misconduct by prosecutors and to make sworn statements before their attorney, Jonathan Turley, now a law professor at George Washington University. Turley said compiling the list and making the sworn statements were unprecedented actions for a grand jury.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&amp;sid=1399251&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&amp;sid=1399251&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bmaz did you see this from AP?</p>
<blockquote><p>A judge has refused to make public some sworn statements by former grand jurors alleging that prosecutors committed misconduct during an investigation into possible environmental crimes at the old Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant.</p>
<p>U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch released several documents and motions from the 1989 case Monday but not the sworn statements or a list of alleged misconduct.</p>
<p>Some former members of the grand jury have alleged the Justice Department broke the law during the probe and cut a deal with plant’s operator, Rockwell International, for an $18.5 million fine. Prosecutors have denied misconduct.</p>
<p>Matsch allowed the jurors in 1997 to create a list of alleged misconduct by prosecutors and to make sworn statements before their attorney, Jonathan Turley, now a law professor at George Washington University. Turley said compiling the list and making the sworn statements were unprecedented actions for a grand jury.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&amp;sid=1399251" rel="nofollow">http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&amp;sid=1399251</a></p>
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		<title>By: BayStateLibrul</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68104</link>
		<dc:creator>BayStateLibrul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68104</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bmaz,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While we are contemplating the $126 per oil barrel, this article gives a&lt;br /&gt;
different perspective on old Reggie (not October)….&lt;br /&gt;
Personally, I feel reporters should be protected, yet we had Judy.&lt;br /&gt;
As a Libra, I’m torn, but thought Walton’s directive was well, punitive…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/05/08/pressed_freedom/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....d_freedom/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bmaz,</p>
<p>While we are contemplating the $126 per oil barrel, this article gives a<br />
different perspective on old Reggie (not October)….<br />
Personally, I feel reporters should be protected, yet we had Judy.<br />
As a Libra, I’m torn, but thought Walton’s directive was well, punitive…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/05/08/pressed_freedom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/news/loc&#8230;..d_freedom/</a></p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-68103</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/05/08/bloch-stop-making-sense/#comment-68103</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh my, YES I do..! Thanks bmaz.  I appreciate the “heads up”. Otherwise, I almost called in a “nasty gram” to my internet provider but figured it had to be updates on the site!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hanging tough is no problem.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my, YES I do..! Thanks bmaz.  I appreciate the “heads up”. Otherwise, I almost called in a “nasty gram” to my internet provider but figured it had to be updates on the site!</p>
<p>Hanging tough is no problem.</p>
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