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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;It&#8217;s Not that Yoo Engaged in Really Bad Lawyering, Really It&#8217;s Not&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/</link>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66829</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66829</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gosh–and I thought we were all “beating up on” Yoo because we thought that civilized people respect human dignity, the Rule of Law, and the (ratified) Bill of Rights.  Gosh, what is patriotism these days?  Kow-towing to the powerful because tyranny is a better form of government than liberal democracy?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh–and I thought we were all “beating up on” Yoo because we thought that civilized people respect human dignity, the Rule of Law, and the (ratified) Bill of Rights.  Gosh, what is patriotism these days?  Kow-towing to the powerful because tyranny is a better form of government than liberal democracy?</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66794</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66794</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree about the importance of congress’ work throught DTA, MCA, as a scale with which to evaluate Yoo’s craft from his olc years; but that may be a retrospective approach; I would have to know more about the legislative history of DTA to find much relevance to Yoo’s exercises.  For the curious, links to principal deputy assistant attorney general in DoJ’s office of legislative affairs Brian Benczkowski’s two missives to Sen.Wyden appear below.  I found it extraordinary that the letters take the position that humane treatment of prisoners is waived, and that the letters argue Scotus has supported that; see the missives for full legal parse.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;An apparently &lt;a&gt;undated letter&lt;/a&gt; responding to Wyden’s first lettter of August 8, 2007; this letter from Benczkowski is datestamped in September 2007; the quality of the pdf is poor, as if scanned from a photocopy with skew and dropouts; the date stamp is positioned carefully as if blending into the letterhead; the image is so degraded Acrobat does not see it as text but instead as a bitmap only.  Yet the character font of the datestamp looks like it is the same as in the subsequent Benczkowski letter, see below.  NB:  August 27, 2007 was the date of Gonzales’ resignation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;An apparently &lt;a href=&quot;http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/washington/20080427-INTEL/letter4.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;undated letter&lt;/a&gt; datestamped in March 2008 responding to Wyden followup questions dated December 20, 2007.  The pdf has only slight skew, as if scanned from the original; AdobeAcrobat can see the content as searchable text.  The datestamp appears to have the same font as the prior letter fro Benczkowski but is positioned haphazardly floating between stationery letterhead and body of text of first paragraph.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A glance at SCSI’s website shows it is somewhat constrained about its public presentation.  But sites of even more open committees in the congress have nearly as labyrinthine presentations.  Though SCSI’s site makes little attempt to provide an easy way to locate any documents.  Even its chronicling of its own public statements begins in reverse fashion, so the most current issues require the visitor to scan downpage instead of finding the current matters presented at the topmost spot.  Predictably for a site of a somewhat junior member of a committee as buttondown as SCSI, Wyden’s own pleasant website addresses mostly constituency matters and has no apparent mention of these two letters which NYT has linked.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the datestamps were placed by the sender instead of producing a computerfile which included the date in the body of the letter drafted, the second letter arrived at SCSI or at Wyden’s office, during Mukasey’s tenure; and the first letter perhaps was during the interregnum without an AG if sent at the end of August, but maybe that first letter from Benczkowski was material Gonzales oversaw while still there as AG.  I would doubt Yoo’s reallyPoliticalLawyering workproduct would have been provided in courtesy copy form to the Gang of 8, but that might be an interesting datapoint to know.  Declaratively, I take a more permissive view of JayR’s famed memo to file approach to participation in G8 than many in the liberalsphere, though it is nice to compare Harman’s somewhat more aggressive feedback style.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about the importance of congress’ work throught DTA, MCA, as a scale with which to evaluate Yoo’s craft from his olc years; but that may be a retrospective approach; I would have to know more about the legislative history of DTA to find much relevance to Yoo’s exercises.  For the curious, links to principal deputy assistant attorney general in DoJ’s office of legislative affairs Brian Benczkowski’s two missives to Sen.Wyden appear below.  I found it extraordinary that the letters take the position that humane treatment of prisoners is waived, and that the letters argue Scotus has supported that; see the missives for full legal parse.</p>
<p>An apparently <a>undated letter</a> responding to Wyden’s first lettter of August 8, 2007; this letter from Benczkowski is datestamped in September 2007; the quality of the pdf is poor, as if scanned from a photocopy with skew and dropouts; the date stamp is positioned carefully as if blending into the letterhead; the image is so degraded Acrobat does not see it as text but instead as a bitmap only.  Yet the character font of the datestamp looks like it is the same as in the subsequent Benczkowski letter, see below.  NB:  August 27, 2007 was the date of Gonzales’ resignation.</p>
<p>An apparently <a href="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/washington/20080427-INTEL/letter4.pdf" rel="nofollow">undated letter</a> datestamped in March 2008 responding to Wyden followup questions dated December 20, 2007.  The pdf has only slight skew, as if scanned from the original; AdobeAcrobat can see the content as searchable text.  The datestamp appears to have the same font as the prior letter fro Benczkowski but is positioned haphazardly floating between stationery letterhead and body of text of first paragraph.</p>
<p>A glance at SCSI’s website shows it is somewhat constrained about its public presentation.  But sites of even more open committees in the congress have nearly as labyrinthine presentations.  Though SCSI’s site makes little attempt to provide an easy way to locate any documents.  Even its chronicling of its own public statements begins in reverse fashion, so the most current issues require the visitor to scan downpage instead of finding the current matters presented at the topmost spot.  Predictably for a site of a somewhat junior member of a committee as buttondown as SCSI, Wyden’s own pleasant website addresses mostly constituency matters and has no apparent mention of these two letters which NYT has linked.</p>
<p>If the datestamps were placed by the sender instead of producing a computerfile which included the date in the body of the letter drafted, the second letter arrived at SCSI or at Wyden’s office, during Mukasey’s tenure; and the first letter perhaps was during the interregnum without an AG if sent at the end of August, but maybe that first letter from Benczkowski was material Gonzales oversaw while still there as AG.  I would doubt Yoo’s reallyPoliticalLawyering workproduct would have been provided in courtesy copy form to the Gang of 8, but that might be an interesting datapoint to know.  Declaratively, I take a more permissive view of JayR’s famed memo to file approach to participation in G8 than many in the liberalsphere, though it is nice to compare Harman’s somewhat more aggressive feedback style.</p>
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		<title>By: rkilowatt</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66735</link>
		<dc:creator>rkilowatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66735</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is much agreement that all life-forms are seeking to survive, as a driving dynamic.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yet the human kind is further understood to be driven by the urge to cause effects… any effect being better than no-effect. No-effect is rather equivalent to death, isn’t it? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tyrantgeorge seems to specialize in causing effects that are harmful, as if past attempts to cause other kinds of effect were somehow stymied. The politics of governing offer endless opportunity to wheel and deal, manipulate, act covertly,trick,bait-n-switch,dominate and, through it all, without any hard lines of accountability. The results are confused,murky and defy easy measurement. Tyrantgeorge knows well who is causing the actions, so believes in a perverted way that he is acting responsibly.&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, this is just my opinion.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is much agreement that all life-forms are seeking to survive, as a driving dynamic.</p>
<p>Yet the human kind is further understood to be driven by the urge to cause effects… any effect being better than no-effect. No-effect is rather equivalent to death, isn’t it? </p>
<p>Tyrantgeorge seems to specialize in causing effects that are harmful, as if past attempts to cause other kinds of effect were somehow stymied. The politics of governing offer endless opportunity to wheel and deal, manipulate, act covertly,trick,bait-n-switch,dominate and, through it all, without any hard lines of accountability. The results are confused,murky and defy easy measurement. Tyrantgeorge knows well who is causing the actions, so believes in a perverted way that he is acting responsibly.<br />
Of course, this is just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: pseudonymousinnc</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66731</link>
		<dc:creator>pseudonymousinnc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66731</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;So Rivkind and Casey are clearly trying to misrepresent to the WSJ’s readers what’s at issue here.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No, they’re not: they’re providing a legalistic shit-screen  for the WSJ editorial-reader’s gut feeling that torture is a-okay. A malodorous fog hangs over everything Rivkind does.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So Rivkind and Casey are clearly trying to misrepresent to the WSJ’s readers what’s at issue here.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No, they’re not: they’re providing a legalistic shit-screen  for the WSJ editorial-reader’s gut feeling that torture is a-okay. A malodorous fog hangs over everything Rivkind does.</p>
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		<title>By: rkilowatt</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66727</link>
		<dc:creator>rkilowatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66727</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:Alabama@17–”to&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alabama@17–”to&lt;/a&gt; explore various clever constructions of the law (endlessly fascinating as they are.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“… the whole atmosphere of every prison is an atmosphere of glorification of that sort of &lt;strong&gt;gambling in “clever strokes”&lt;/strong&gt; which constitutes the very essence of theft, swindling and &lt;strong&gt;all sorts of similar anti-social deeds&lt;/strong&gt;.” PKropotkin’s Memoirs, ca 1899&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="mailto:Alabama@17–”to" rel="nofollow">Alabama@17–”to</a> explore various clever constructions of the law (endlessly fascinating as they are.”</p>
<p>“… the whole atmosphere of every prison is an atmosphere of glorification of that sort of <strong>gambling in “clever strokes”</strong> which constitutes the very essence of theft, swindling and <strong>all sorts of similar anti-social deeds</strong>.” PKropotkin’s Memoirs, ca 1899</p>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66725</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66725</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bush refuses to insult others&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Alabama, haven’t you ever noticed the nicknames Bush gives people? &lt;em&gt;Every one&lt;/em&gt; of them is insulting. He has to tear down everyone else so he can feel big. It’s a bad sign in a president.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Bush refuses to insult others</em></p>
<p>Alabama, haven’t you ever noticed the nicknames Bush gives people? <em>Every one</em> of them is insulting. He has to tear down everyone else so he can feel big. It’s a bad sign in a president.</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66724</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66724</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Of course I do, behindthefall, and so do you!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Shall we eat up our time and energy trotting out the long, long list in all its sordid details?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If so, then I’ll let you start this parade by reviewing Bush’s performance as the Grand Executioner of Texas, enumerating each and every one of his delectable deaths, one by one by one. When you’ve finished–if ever you do–then I’ll pick it up from there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aha. I’ve seen this tactic before. No, alabama, it is not up to behindthefall to do your job for you. If you want to make a case, &lt;strong&gt;you&lt;/strong&gt; have to do it. The ball, sir or madam, is in your court.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Of course I do, behindthefall, and so do you!</p>
<p>Shall we eat up our time and energy trotting out the long, long list in all its sordid details?</p>
<p>If so, then I’ll let you start this parade by reviewing Bush’s performance as the Grand Executioner of Texas, enumerating each and every one of his delectable deaths, one by one by one. When you’ve finished–if ever you do–then I’ll pick it up from there.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Aha. I’ve seen this tactic before. No, alabama, it is not up to behindthefall to do your job for you. If you want to make a case, <strong>you</strong> have to do it. The ball, sir or madam, is in your court.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: kspena</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66720</link>
		<dc:creator>kspena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66720</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let’s not forget his delight in ordering the destruction of Falluja!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let’s not forget his delight in ordering the destruction of Falluja!</p>
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		<title>By: looseheadprop</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66711</link>
		<dc:creator>looseheadprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66711</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gah!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rivkin is another Victoria Toensing with pants. WHY would any reputable paper print anything this shill writes?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gah!</p>
<p>Rivkin is another Victoria Toensing with pants. WHY would any reputable paper print anything this shill writes?</p>
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		<title>By: smartlady</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66708</link>
		<dc:creator>smartlady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/27/its-not-that-yoo-engaged-in-really-bad-lawyering-really-its-not/#comment-66708</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Does anyone believe that Yoo’s testimony could provide the grounds for an “all inclusive” indictment and trial for a cornucopia of criminal conspiracies by major administration shakers and movers? Is the “Domino Effect” too much to hope for if Yoo can be turned?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone believe that Yoo’s testimony could provide the grounds for an “all inclusive” indictment and trial for a cornucopia of criminal conspiracies by major administration shakers and movers? Is the “Domino Effect” too much to hope for if Yoo can be turned?</p>
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