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	<title>Comments on: Torture Tape Investigation in HPSCI</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/</link>
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		<title>By: jimhicks3</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-66164</link>
		<dc:creator>jimhicks3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re; Immunization &amp; Iran/Contra&lt;br /&gt;
I’ve always thought that the fix was in when old Ollie got immuned. Great show trial like most of what goes on in the hearings now.&lt;br /&gt;
JH&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re; Immunization &amp; Iran/Contra<br />
I’ve always thought that the fix was in when old Ollie got immuned. Great show trial like most of what goes on in the hearings now.<br />
JH</p>
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		<title>By: MadDog</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-66033</link>
		<dc:creator>MadDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I wonder why Hayden has left the military? Any thoughts?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Per the &lt;a href=&quot;http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRShQkJRmI2ODHgHOl2KH0PwQMcgD907KO800&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AP&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hayden, who holds the rank of four-star general, said he is taking the step because of “practical considerations related to military retirement.” He joined the CIA in 2006 but has continued to be paid by the Air Force. He will now be paid by the CIA but will also draw a military pension.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At the very least, now Mikey can “double-dip”. He gets paid by both the CIA and his service pension. Or in other words:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Shortery Mikey Hayden: &lt;i&gt;“I just gave myself a raise. Doh! Why didn’t I think of that before?”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I wonder why Hayden has left the military? Any thoughts?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Per the <a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRShQkJRmI2ODHgHOl2KH0PwQMcgD907KO800" rel="nofollow">AP</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hayden, who holds the rank of four-star general, said he is taking the step because of “practical considerations related to military retirement.” He joined the CIA in 2006 but has continued to be paid by the Air Force. He will now be paid by the CIA but will also draw a military pension.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>At the very least, now Mikey can “double-dip”. He gets paid by both the CIA and his service pension. Or in other words:</p>
<p>Shortery Mikey Hayden: <i>“I just gave myself a raise. Doh! Why didn’t I think of that before?”</i></p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-66026</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, PJ, that’s a very interesting site, helped a lot with variations of spellings.  Tough part will be that our Crazy Pete was born in Groningen, Netherlands and not in the U.S. — but there’s a strong chance that he came to Holland because other family members were already here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The significance of the Prince name might not be obvious at first:&lt;br /&gt;
– &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Betsy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
– &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Prince&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Erik&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah.  Smallish world here.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, PJ, that’s a very interesting site, helped a lot with variations of spellings.  Tough part will be that our Crazy Pete was born in Groningen, Netherlands and not in the U.S. — but there’s a strong chance that he came to Holland because other family members were already here.</p>
<p>The significance of the Prince name might not be obvious at first:<br />
– <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos" rel="nofollow">Betsy</a><br />
– <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Prince" rel="nofollow">Erik</a></p>
<p>Yeah.  Smallish world here.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65992</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am and I am.  There is a dirty bomb plot afoot to blow up NYC, but the dir of the FBI doesn’t concern himself with any details of the interrogation of the guy whose information could cause the death of who knows how many.  And his FBI agents swear out the arrest warrants for Padilla with what - I guess “no knowledge” of the interrogations of Zubaydah who is their source in their affidavits.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It once again becomes the typical Bush situation - the Safavian defense: do I look really dumb and incompetent or do I look really criminal.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Did they ask him specifically about the Pentagon report on the violations of the Geneva Conventions for Padilla and al-Mari that was issued a month before Comey’s presser?  Seems odd that he wouldn’t take an interest in the conditions imposed on a man his FBI agents were routinely questioning.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To give Yoo credit - at least he doesn’t run and hide behind some trumped up, “golly, I didn’t know they were going to take my memo saying they could do bad things and actually do bad things”  For that, he’s much less of a coward than most of them have been.  He’s evil and twit, but not so cowardly as to try to duck, dodge and hide so much.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am and I am.  There is a dirty bomb plot afoot to blow up NYC, but the dir of the FBI doesn’t concern himself with any details of the interrogation of the guy whose information could cause the death of who knows how many.  And his FBI agents swear out the arrest warrants for Padilla with what &#8211; I guess “no knowledge” of the interrogations of Zubaydah who is their source in their affidavits.   </p>
<p>It once again becomes the typical Bush situation &#8211; the Safavian defense: do I look really dumb and incompetent or do I look really criminal.  </p>
<p>Did they ask him specifically about the Pentagon report on the violations of the Geneva Conventions for Padilla and al-Mari that was issued a month before Comey’s presser?  Seems odd that he wouldn’t take an interest in the conditions imposed on a man his FBI agents were routinely questioning.</p>
<p>To give Yoo credit &#8211; at least he doesn’t run and hide behind some trumped up, “golly, I didn’t know they were going to take my memo saying they could do bad things and actually do bad things”  For that, he’s much less of a coward than most of them have been.  He’s evil and twit, but not so cowardly as to try to duck, dodge and hide so much.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65990</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;not very convincingly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not very convincingly.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65989</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I must say Mary,  I thought I followed government a little bit, and every few days from you and Marcy I learn the names of people I should have known about but didn’t.  There are levels and I haven’t been drilling deep enough.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say Mary,  I thought I followed government a little bit, and every few days from you and Marcy I learn the names of people I should have known about but didn’t.  There are levels and I haven’t been drilling deep enough.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65980</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mary&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’ll be interested (and no doubt skeptical) that Mueller denied knowing any details of the Padilla interrogation in his testimony before HJC today.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary</p>
<p>You’ll be interested (and no doubt skeptical) that Mueller denied knowing any details of the Padilla interrogation in his testimony before HJC today.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65978</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/#comment-65978</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So Hayden has decided to end his nonstop disgracing of the uniform?  At least there’s that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the committee has talked to those two highe ranking officials, that means those officials didn’t raise privilege, fourth branchiness, etc. to refuse to talk to them.  Which to me smacks of someone who wants to help control the message while being able to distance themselves a bit from the actual conduct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’d kind of wonder about Bellinger (who tried so hard for so long to spin out what a white hat, anti-torture, kinda guy and had Clemmons IIRC spinning the ‘Bellinger is a good guy’ meme up until a couple of days before Bellinger refused to say it would be a bad thing to waterboard US soldiers) as one of the sources.  He was in the loop both via NSC and later stepping (badly) into Taft’s shoes at State and he so desperately wants to spin out the theme that he is something better and purer than Cheney and Addington.  Plus he’s a Rice firewall/message framer.  Plus, while I don’t know this for a fact, just from the way that so many seem to try so hard to make nicey nice about him (Clemmons, Lederman, the writers of the Cheney series, etc.) he likely has a lot of friends he can call upon on the Intel committee staff.  That would mean they could get the warm fuzzies that he was a good guy and voluntarily cooperated and spoke with them (their pal John) while he could use the friendships and connections to help shafpe the message - plus to non-threateningly threaten on the ‘do you really want people talking about what Jay Rockefeller and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman knew about torture?) hint hing front - plus give his earnest dudley doright look while talking about how afraid everyone was and that making Bush ‘look good’ had nada to do with anything.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No real insights or reasons to think Bellinger more than anyone else, but just my reaction.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Hayden has decided to end his nonstop disgracing of the uniform?  At least there’s that.</p>
<p>If the committee has talked to those two highe ranking officials, that means those officials didn’t raise privilege, fourth branchiness, etc. to refuse to talk to them.  Which to me smacks of someone who wants to help control the message while being able to distance themselves a bit from the actual conduct.</p>
<p>I’d kind of wonder about Bellinger (who tried so hard for so long to spin out what a white hat, anti-torture, kinda guy and had Clemmons IIRC spinning the ‘Bellinger is a good guy’ meme up until a couple of days before Bellinger refused to say it would be a bad thing to waterboard US soldiers) as one of the sources.  He was in the loop both via NSC and later stepping (badly) into Taft’s shoes at State and he so desperately wants to spin out the theme that he is something better and purer than Cheney and Addington.  Plus he’s a Rice firewall/message framer.  Plus, while I don’t know this for a fact, just from the way that so many seem to try so hard to make nicey nice about him (Clemmons, Lederman, the writers of the Cheney series, etc.) he likely has a lot of friends he can call upon on the Intel committee staff.  That would mean they could get the warm fuzzies that he was a good guy and voluntarily cooperated and spoke with them (their pal John) while he could use the friendships and connections to help shafpe the message &#8211; plus to non-threateningly threaten on the ‘do you really want people talking about what Jay Rockefeller and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman knew about torture?) hint hing front &#8211; plus give his earnest dudley doright look while talking about how afraid everyone was and that making Bush ‘look good’ had nada to do with anything.  </p>
<p>No real insights or reasons to think Bellinger more than anyone else, but just my reaction.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65977</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/#comment-65977</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why the hell should we be guessing who these pricks are?  What the frig is sheilding their identity?  This government is completely disconnected from the people who pay for it–so much for that fairy tale fed to children–”of the people, by the people and for the people.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;t is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nope Abe. They diunnnnt and they don’t.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the hell should we be guessing who these pricks are?  What the frig is sheilding their identity?  This government is completely disconnected from the people who pay for it–so much for that fairy tale fed to children–”of the people, by the people and for the people.”</p>
<p>I
</p>
<blockquote><p>t is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. </p></blockquote>
<p>Nope Abe. They diunnnnt and they don’t.</p>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/23/torture-tape-investigation-in-hpsci/comment-page-1/#comment-65976</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rayne, you might start with this database:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&amp;db=poelstra&amp;surname=H&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://worldconnect.rootsweb.a.....;surname=H&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This is the index page with ‘Hoekstra’, of which it has 244.&lt;br /&gt;
(I’ll do some more checking when I get home.)&lt;br /&gt;
You can also try FamilySearch, which is the online access to the Mormon database. It doesn’t include people after 1900, except for the Social Security death index.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rayne, you might start with this database:<br />
<a href="http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&amp;db=poelstra&amp;surname=H" rel="nofollow">http://worldconnect.rootsweb.a&#8230;..;surname=H</a><br />
This is the index page with ‘Hoekstra’, of which it has 244.<br />
(I’ll do some more checking when I get home.)<br />
You can also try FamilySearch, which is the online access to the Mormon database. It doesn’t include people after 1900, except for the Social Security death index.)</p>
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