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	<title>Comments on: Embarrassment-Free Show Trials</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/</link>
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		<title>By: Markinsanfran</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-62003</link>
		<dc:creator>Markinsanfran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-62003</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Okay, that’s it. I just (finally) joined the ACLU. Hopefully they will send me a card so I can be a “card-carrying member”  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seriously, though. These “trials” are BS. Besides, who ever heard of secret show-trials?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, that’s it. I just (finally) joined the ACLU. Hopefully they will send me a card so I can be a “card-carrying member”  </p>
<p>Seriously, though. These “trials” are BS. Besides, who ever heard of secret show-trials?</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61984</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61984</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I like the English tradition, apart from its restrictive trade practices/class uppitiness aspects: it recognizes that there are barristers, courtroom lawyers, and solicitors, who do everything else.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just as there are pilots who can land on a rolling, pitching and yawing carrier deck after dark, and those who need two and a half miles of flat prairie to land a behemoth loaded with newcueler bonbons.  I wouldn’t hire a corporate/tax lawyer to handle a murder case, or a cowboy hatted showman to negotiate a joint venture in China, but I might reverse the assignments.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s one reason I have such disdain for the loyalty-at-all-costs priority of this administration and its GOP CongressCritters.  It leads to idiotic mismatches of talent and work to do.  But then George thinks he does a good job at everything.  That’s why he hates facts and despises oversight; deep down where the bible don’t go, he knows it ain’t so.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the English tradition, apart from its restrictive trade practices/class uppitiness aspects: it recognizes that there are barristers, courtroom lawyers, and solicitors, who do everything else.  </p>
<p>Just as there are pilots who can land on a rolling, pitching and yawing carrier deck after dark, and those who need two and a half miles of flat prairie to land a behemoth loaded with newcueler bonbons.  I wouldn’t hire a corporate/tax lawyer to handle a murder case, or a cowboy hatted showman to negotiate a joint venture in China, but I might reverse the assignments.</p>
<p>That’s one reason I have such disdain for the loyalty-at-all-costs priority of this administration and its GOP CongressCritters.  It leads to idiotic mismatches of talent and work to do.  But then George thinks he does a good job at everything.  That’s why he hates facts and despises oversight; deep down where the bible don’t go, he knows it ain’t so.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61978</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61978</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Heh heh, pretty petty sniping.  I got news for both Yoo and Goldsmith, most of the lawyers I spent the better part of my career around would thumb their nose at both these jerks as being paper pushing twits.  To the guys I am talking about, you shouldn’t even call yourself a lawyer until you have live courtroom experience in front of a jury; which, to the best of my knowledge, neither Yoo nor Goldsmith particularly do.  I don’t really subscribe to that thought process, there are a lot of facets to the law, but the petty sniping of the torture twins does crack me up.  Who the fuck are they (other than a huge embarrassment)?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh heh, pretty petty sniping.  I got news for both Yoo and Goldsmith, most of the lawyers I spent the better part of my career around would thumb their nose at both these jerks as being paper pushing twits.  To the guys I am talking about, you shouldn’t even call yourself a lawyer until you have live courtroom experience in front of a jury; which, to the best of my knowledge, neither Yoo nor Goldsmith particularly do.  I don’t really subscribe to that thought process, there are a lot of facets to the law, but the petty sniping of the torture twins does crack me up.  Who the fuck are they (other than a huge embarrassment)?</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61976</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61976</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As someone pointed out yesterday, a lawyer whose primary references are often to himself is saying that he has no basis in the law for his argument.  Yoo’s memo is replete with such referencing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone pointed out yesterday, a lawyer whose primary references are often to himself is saying that he has no basis in the law for his argument.  Yoo’s memo is replete with such referencing.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61975</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61975</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Zing, personal attacks always come first.  Goldsmith “never issued an opinion of his own”; perhaps because he was so busy rewriting Yoo’s.  Yoo offers up the quintessential faculty club put down to describe the unconnected outsider of lesser brains.  Yoo’s had good coaching; the sound byte will carry, but without much bite.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Goldsmith’s credentials are at least as good as Yoo’s, his job at Harvard has higher standing than Yoo’s at Berkeley, and most importantly, his work and the confidence placed in it by informed and responsible leaders stands in marked contrast to the dustbin quality of Yoo’s own.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zing, personal attacks always come first.  Goldsmith “never issued an opinion of his own”; perhaps because he was so busy rewriting Yoo’s.  Yoo offers up the quintessential faculty club put down to describe the unconnected outsider of lesser brains.  Yoo’s had good coaching; the sound byte will carry, but without much bite.  </p>
<p>Goldsmith’s credentials are at least as good as Yoo’s, his job at Harvard has higher standing than Yoo’s at Berkeley, and most importantly, his work and the confidence placed in it by informed and responsible leaders stands in marked contrast to the dustbin quality of Yoo’s own.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61974</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61974</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;bmaz, Thanks for the link. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yoo argues that Goldsmith cannot reasonably criticize the work unless he himself first endeavors to address the same legal question. Yoo offers no explicit defense for the charge the opinion ‘wasn’t well reasoned’.  Yoo implies all he usual suspects had a chance to review the work, that is was vetted according to the time-tested process that yields good legal opinion from OLC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Isn’t the point of a legal opinion to make a compelling argument that rests on legal principles, unimpeachable fact, thorough analysis and compelling logic?  That this argument would stand on its own? So how can Yoo claim that his legal opinion cannot be criticized unless the critic first endeavors to write their own legal opinion the topic. It’s bullshit, right?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bmaz, Thanks for the link. </p>
<p>Yoo argues that Goldsmith cannot reasonably criticize the work unless he himself first endeavors to address the same legal question. Yoo offers no explicit defense for the charge the opinion ‘wasn’t well reasoned’.  Yoo implies all he usual suspects had a chance to review the work, that is was vetted according to the time-tested process that yields good legal opinion from OLC.</p>
<p>Isn’t the point of a legal opinion to make a compelling argument that rests on legal principles, unimpeachable fact, thorough analysis and compelling logic?  That this argument would stand on its own? So how can Yoo claim that his legal opinion cannot be criticized unless the critic first endeavors to write their own legal opinion the topic. It’s bullshit, right?</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61973</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61973</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If nobody has linked it before, here is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.esquire.com/the-side/qa/john-yoo-responds&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Q &amp; A with Yoo&lt;/a&gt; from the new Esquire bearing today’s date.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yoo: The interrogation question came up, I think, in March, when Abu Zubaydah was captured. That’s what provoked that question.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Esquire: That’s the one that’s been so strongly criticized. Goldsmith said it was slapdash and wasn’t well reasoned.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yoo: I think that’s unfair, first because Goldsmith never issued an opinion of his own. He’s certainly free to criticize. It goes back to unless you’ve actually made the hard decision yourself, then you don’t really know how you think it through, what you would do. So he says “slapdash opinion,” but we have no idea what he would have done, because he left. Second thing is, it went through the normal process opinions go through in the Justice Department. It was primarily worked on by career staff people, and then went through a process of editing and review by different offices within the department, no different than any other.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Esquire: Ashcroft saw it?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yoo: He approved it. And so the idea that’s its slapdash, or it was haphazard — I don’t think was true.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some interesting stuff in the Q &amp; A&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nobody has linked it before, here is a <a href="http://www.esquire.com/the-side/qa/john-yoo-responds" rel="nofollow">Q &amp; A with Yoo</a> from the new Esquire bearing today’s date.</p>
<blockquote><p>Yoo: The interrogation question came up, I think, in March, when Abu Zubaydah was captured. That’s what provoked that question.</p>
<p>Esquire: That’s the one that’s been so strongly criticized. Goldsmith said it was slapdash and wasn’t well reasoned.</p>
<p>Yoo: I think that’s unfair, first because Goldsmith never issued an opinion of his own. He’s certainly free to criticize. It goes back to unless you’ve actually made the hard decision yourself, then you don’t really know how you think it through, what you would do. So he says “slapdash opinion,” but we have no idea what he would have done, because he left. Second thing is, it went through the normal process opinions go through in the Justice Department. It was primarily worked on by career staff people, and then went through a process of editing and review by different offices within the department, no different than any other.</p>
<p>Esquire: Ashcroft saw it?</p>
<p>Yoo: He approved it. And so the idea that’s its slapdash, or it was haphazard — I don’t think was true.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Some interesting stuff in the Q &amp; A</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61971</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dahlia Lithwick is usually smarter than this.  Her take on the Yoo Two memo is more yawn than yowl, more defense of lawyers’ limitations - as if Yoo’s memo were responsible lawyering rather than after-the-fact justification for whatever the boss was doing - than criticism of what they do as citizens.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2188008/pagenum/2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2188008/pagenum/2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;She’s a highly-credentialed lawyer and good writer.  She hits all the right cautionary notes and cites Lederman and others for depth.  Her essay is also filled with the requisite snarky conflation of analysis and pop culture - Yoo managed to cook him “some law in his constitutional Easy-Bake Oven”.  But her critique falls flat.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think it’s because she builds it around the passive voice.  Yoo’s Yoo Two memo “became” torture policy, rather than it was used to justify an existing policy.  Yoo’s a “mid-level lawyer”, as if he were some desk officer on duty when a call came in saying, “We’ve got us some prisoners; what can we do with ‘em?”  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t think that captures Yoo’s place in the Addington/Cheney network, or political and legal genesis of how this  memo came to be, or how Team Cheney used it to justify its torture policy.  It’s too soon to call her Maureen Lithwick, but if she favorably quotes Doug Kmiec or MoDo too often, it’ll be time to change the name plate.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dahlia Lithwick is usually smarter than this.  Her take on the Yoo Two memo is more yawn than yowl, more defense of lawyers’ limitations &#8211; as if Yoo’s memo were responsible lawyering rather than after-the-fact justification for whatever the boss was doing &#8211; than criticism of what they do as citizens.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2188008/pagenum/2" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2188008/pagenum/2</a></p>
<p>She’s a highly-credentialed lawyer and good writer.  She hits all the right cautionary notes and cites Lederman and others for depth.  Her essay is also filled with the requisite snarky conflation of analysis and pop culture &#8211; Yoo managed to cook him “some law in his constitutional Easy-Bake Oven”.  But her critique falls flat.</p>
<p>I think it’s because she builds it around the passive voice.  Yoo’s Yoo Two memo “became” torture policy, rather than it was used to justify an existing policy.  Yoo’s a “mid-level lawyer”, as if he were some desk officer on duty when a call came in saying, “We’ve got us some prisoners; what can we do with ‘em?”  </p>
<p>I don’t think that captures Yoo’s place in the Addington/Cheney network, or political and legal genesis of how this  memo came to be, or how Team Cheney used it to justify its torture policy.  It’s too soon to call her Maureen Lithwick, but if she favorably quotes Doug Kmiec or MoDo too often, it’ll be time to change the name plate.</p>
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		<title>By: MarieRoget</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61967</link>
		<dc:creator>MarieRoget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great letter to Edley, al75.  IMO, no acts of contrition full or partial ever deemed necessary around here for the pure of intent, or of heart.  Maybe we all can make Yoo leave Boalt.  In disgrace.  Personally, I’m going to try my damnedest.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great letter to Edley, al75.  IMO, no acts of contrition full or partial ever deemed necessary around here for the pure of intent, or of heart.  Maybe we all can make Yoo leave Boalt.  In disgrace.  Personally, I’m going to try my damnedest.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61966</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/04/03/embarrassment-free-show-trials/#comment-61966</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thought I would post links to a new read-only &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/convictions/default.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog at Slate&lt;/a&gt;, as well as an &lt;a href=&quot;http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/04/theres-war-crimes-tribunal-in-your.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;international law&lt;/a&gt; commentary at balkinization.  There had been trouble posting earlier today, so this is a test.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought I would post links to a new read-only <a href="http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/convictions/default.aspx" rel="nofollow">blog at Slate</a>, as well as an <a href="http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/04/theres-war-crimes-tribunal-in-your.html" rel="nofollow">international law</a> commentary at balkinization.  There had been trouble posting earlier today, so this is a test.</p>
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