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	<title>Comments on: FISA: FBI Overrides Constitutional Objections</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/</link>
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		<title>By: nolo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58576</link>
		<dc:creator>nolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58576</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A rather recently-emerging trend is for libraries — at least in the larger metropolitan areas — to challenge the gag-provisions of Patriot Act Section 215, and the similar provision in the NSLs cases.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At a minimum, the FBI must show that an after-the-fact notice of surveillance would compromise ongoing investigations, in order to NOT run afoul of our 220-years of fourth amendment jurisprudence. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At least that has occaionally been litigated of late.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One small step at a time. . . we will work our way back to sanity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p e a c e&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A rather recently-emerging trend is for libraries — at least in the larger metropolitan areas — to challenge the gag-provisions of Patriot Act Section 215, and the similar provision in the NSLs cases.</p>
<p>At a minimum, the FBI must show that an after-the-fact notice of surveillance would compromise ongoing investigations, in order to NOT run afoul of our 220-years of fourth amendment jurisprudence. . .</p>
<p>At least that has occaionally been litigated of late.</p>
<p>One small step at a time. . . we will work our way back to sanity.</p>
<p>p e a c e</p>
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		<title>By: nolo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58570</link>
		<dc:creator>nolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58570</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey! — that’s me! Yipee:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Update: nolo has &lt;a href=&quot;http://indictdickcheney.blogspot.com/2008/03/breaking-dojs-oig-documents-and-fbi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the passage from the OIG report on this&lt;/a&gt;. . .&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More seriously, thanks, EW.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, keep on keepin’ on — until these warrantless, no judicial review, based on a simple, unsworn FBI agent asserts standard of “&lt;em&gt;relevance&lt;/em&gt;” — not “&lt;em&gt;articuable suspicion&lt;/em&gt;“, and certainly not full-on “&lt;em&gt;probable cause&lt;/em&gt;” — until these are dead and buried, all of us, bloggers clearly-included, here, are at rather grave risk for simply expressing views, or allowing comments, by those critical of our government.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And that, according to some of the agents at the FBI, makes a Section 215 “&lt;em&gt;associations&lt;/em&gt;” case. Now, if that grouchy old FISA judge won’t agree with the agent, s/he will just issue their own National Security Letter for exactly the same stuff — &lt;em&gt;Presto! No problemo &lt;/em&gt;– end, Constitutional guarantees. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p e a c e&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! — that’s me! Yipee:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Update: nolo has <a href="http://indictdickcheney.blogspot.com/2008/03/breaking-dojs-oig-documents-and-fbi.html" rel="nofollow">the passage from the OIG report on this</a>. . .</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>More seriously, thanks, EW.</p>
<p>And, keep on keepin’ on — until these warrantless, no judicial review, based on a simple, unsworn FBI agent asserts standard of “<em>relevance</em>” — not “<em>articuable suspicion</em>“, and certainly not full-on “<em>probable cause</em>” — until these are dead and buried, all of us, bloggers clearly-included, here, are at rather grave risk for simply expressing views, or allowing comments, by those critical of our government.  </p>
<p>And that, according to some of the agents at the FBI, makes a Section 215 “<em>associations</em>” case. Now, if that grouchy old FISA judge won’t agree with the agent, s/he will just issue their own National Security Letter for exactly the same stuff — <em>Presto! No problemo </em>– end, Constitutional guarantees. </p>
<p>p e a c e</p>
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		<title>By: Sedgequill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58558</link>
		<dc:creator>Sedgequill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58558</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Gorman article is useful in describing how far surveillance and data programs go, but the important legal aspects are examined in Kurt Opsahl’s DeepLinks article, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/03/law-checking-wsj-article-domestic-spying&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Law-Checking WSJ Article on Domestic Spying&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Gorman article is useful in describing how far surveillance and data programs go, but the important legal aspects are examined in Kurt Opsahl’s DeepLinks article, <a href="http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/03/law-checking-wsj-article-domestic-spying" rel="nofollow">Law-Checking WSJ Article on Domestic Spying</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58556</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58556</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;BSRH–&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You Tube of KO’s 8 Minute Commentary you requested on Wed. March 12:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTk7QlqWk08&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;KO Exposes Clinton You Tube March 12 Commentary&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BSRH–</p>
<p>You Tube of KO’s 8 Minute Commentary you requested on Wed. March 12:</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTk7QlqWk08" rel="nofollow">KO Exposes Clinton You Tube March 12 Commentary</a></strong></p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58553</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58553</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The egregious bloviating by people like Dan Lungren–R California 3rd has very real correlates that have decimated every scintilla of your privacy:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120511973377523845.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NSA’s Domestic Spying Grows As Agency Sweeps Up Data&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/washington/13fbi.html?ref=business&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;F.B.I. Made ‘Blanket’ Demands for Phone Records&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/washington/13cnd-fbi.html?hp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Report on F.B.I. Use of Personal Data&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The egregious bloviating by people like Dan Lungren–R California 3rd has very real correlates that have decimated every scintilla of your privacy:</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120511973377523845.html" rel="nofollow">NSA’s Domestic Spying Grows As Agency Sweeps Up Data</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/washington/13fbi.html?ref=business" rel="nofollow">F.B.I. Made ‘Blanket’ Demands for Phone Records<br />
</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/washington/13cnd-fbi.html?hp" rel="nofollow">Report on F.B.I. Use of Personal Data</a></strong></p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58545</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58545</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They only recently hired GOrman. They knew what they were getting–by far one of the best security journalists in this country.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They only recently hired GOrman. They knew what they were getting–by far one of the best security journalists in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Sedgequill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58544</link>
		<dc:creator>Sedgequill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58544</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I feel sorry for persons who are totally dependent on public libraries for Internet access (I’ve been there) and/or largely dependent on public libraries for information resources. In all public library systems resource-related user activities are exposed (for security and data-collection purposes) to some extent; in some systems all resource-related user activities are exposed with the possible exception of physically accessing and reading shelved books and other library materials. The privacy situation in the public library was bad enough before the USA Patriot Act. Now there are National Security Letters, which served librarians are not free to talk about, and possibly complete electronic surveillance in real time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel sorry for persons who are totally dependent on public libraries for Internet access (I’ve been there) and/or largely dependent on public libraries for information resources. In all public library systems resource-related user activities are exposed (for security and data-collection purposes) to some extent; in some systems all resource-related user activities are exposed with the possible exception of physically accessing and reading shelved books and other library materials. The privacy situation in the public library was bad enough before the USA Patriot Act. Now there are National Security Letters, which served librarians are not free to talk about, and possibly complete electronic surveillance in real time.</p>
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		<title>By: kirk  murphy</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58540</link>
		<dc:creator>kirk  murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58540</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EW, although CP is a very uneven site, one writer there lays out a strong case that the death of FARC’s second-in-command was a US air assassination:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;On Friday, Ecuador’s Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval announced that after further investigation of the area targeted during the March 1 attack it was revealed that the site had been bombarded with at least five bombs (‘Smart Bombs’). &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.counterpunch.org/brittain03122008.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;All five detonations were within a 50-meter diameter during a nocturnal attack&lt;/a&gt;, a virtually impossible achievement when concerning the military capabilities and resources of the Colombian Air and Armed Forces. Sandoval claimed that the arms used during the incursion can only be deployed through the use of aircraft which have the capacity to fly at a considerable height and velocity, weaponry that is again not found within the Colombian Air Force. The only Air Force in the region with such an arsenal is the United States.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EW, although CP is a very uneven site, one writer there lays out a strong case that the death of FARC’s second-in-command was a US air assassination:</p>
<blockquote><p>On Friday, Ecuador’s Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval announced that after further investigation of the area targeted during the March 1 attack it was revealed that the site had been bombarded with at least five bombs (‘Smart Bombs’). <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/brittain03122008.html" rel="nofollow">All five detonations were within a 50-meter diameter during a nocturnal attack</a>, a virtually impossible achievement when concerning the military capabilities and resources of the Colombian Air and Armed Forces. Sandoval claimed that the arms used during the incursion can only be deployed through the use of aircraft which have the capacity to fly at a considerable height and velocity, weaponry that is again not found within the Colombian Air Force. The only Air Force in the region with such an arsenal is the United States.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: BlueStateRedHead</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58539</link>
		<dc:creator>BlueStateRedHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58539</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT, back two/three threads on NRCC, a timeline found:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Shorter timeline. no lone rogue but intentional destruction of oversight.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..509/471397&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..509/471397&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT, back two/three threads on NRCC, a timeline found:</p>
<p>Shorter timeline. no lone rogue but intentional destruction of oversight.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..509/471397" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..509/471397</a></p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-58535</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/14/fisa-fbi-overrides-constitutional-objections/#comment-58535</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks ew. As I think has already been mentioned, we may be getting at least a little help from some on the right. I guess the WSJ front page editor sneaked this past Rupert back on March 10: &lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120511973377523845.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NSA’s Domestic Spying Grows&lt;br /&gt;
As Agency Sweeps Up Data&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks ew. As I think has already been mentioned, we may be getting at least a little help from some on the right. I guess the WSJ front page editor sneaked this past Rupert back on March 10: <a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120511973377523845.html" rel="nofollow">NSA’s Domestic Spying Grows<br />
As Agency Sweeps Up Data</a></p>
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