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	<title>Comments on: Iran-Contra 2.0</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/</link>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56585</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56585</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very glad to see more attention to the David Rose article.  I &lt;a href=&quot;http://alovelypromise.blogspot.com/2007/05/polite-and-deadly-silence.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blogged&lt;/a&gt; about this situation last year, and despaired of it ever getting any play from liberals.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Count me in agreement with commenters who’ve made the point that this is not “incompetence” any more than the occupation of Iraq is.  That is, the incompetence (self-delusion, counterproductiveness, etc.) is not the biggest part of what’s outrageous about the policy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not sure I buy Abrams’ and Wurmser’s  distancing themselves from the policy now, either; if they want to pretend they opposed it, it’s because it’s another huge, stinking failure.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tony Karon, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://tonykaron.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rootless Cosmopolitan&lt;/a&gt;, has had the most accurate analysis of this all along, and his posts from last summer, immediately after the defeat of Dahlan’s attempted coup, are worth re-reading.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very glad to see more attention to the David Rose article.  I <a href="http://alovelypromise.blogspot.com/2007/05/polite-and-deadly-silence.html" rel="nofollow">blogged</a> about this situation last year, and despaired of it ever getting any play from liberals.  </p>
<p>Count me in agreement with commenters who’ve made the point that this is not “incompetence” any more than the occupation of Iraq is.  That is, the incompetence (self-delusion, counterproductiveness, etc.) is not the biggest part of what’s outrageous about the policy.</p>
<p>Not sure I buy Abrams’ and Wurmser’s  distancing themselves from the policy now, either; if they want to pretend they opposed it, it’s because it’s another huge, stinking failure.  </p>
<p>Tony Karon, the <a href="http://tonykaron.com" rel="nofollow">Rootless Cosmopolitan</a>, has had the most accurate analysis of this all along, and his posts from last summer, immediately after the defeat of Dahlan’s attempted coup, are worth re-reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56524</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56524</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I was ravaged over at Firedoglake for linking articles and my “tone”. Funny how that goes.  Many of those folks can rip folks and issues to shreds using gutter language yet when you have what they interpret as a “tone” you are attacked personally over at FDL.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was ravaged over at Firedoglake for linking articles and my “tone”. Funny how that goes.  Many of those folks can rip folks and issues to shreds using gutter language yet when you have what they interpret as a “tone” you are attacked personally over at FDL.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56522</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is interesting.  Would make for a good story&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting.  Would make for a good story</p>
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		<title>By: Minnesotachuck</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56505</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesotachuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56505</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s encouraging, that B&amp;N HarMar is still carrying it.  I’m going to contact some poobah in the Hennepin County Library system and see if they have any plans to order additional copies.  I also want to find out how many copies they had originally.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s encouraging, that B&amp;N HarMar is still carrying it.  I’m going to contact some poobah in the Hennepin County Library system and see if they have any plans to order additional copies.  I also want to find out how many copies they had originally.</p>
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		<title>By: merkwurdiglieber</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56489</link>
		<dc:creator>merkwurdiglieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56489</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The “Berlin Wall” that weaves it’s way around and through Palestinian&lt;br /&gt;
  land, you know, the one Sharon took Bush and Condi up in a copter in&lt;br /&gt;
  summer 2000 to show the future route of. It is a long way from that&lt;br /&gt;
  back to the day of our denunciation of the Berlin Wall. Don’t get&lt;br /&gt;
  the apartheid argument, look what happened to Jimmy Carter when he&lt;br /&gt;
  described the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians as just that. Read&lt;br /&gt;
  some Robert Fisk and find out what the chosen have done to their brothers&lt;br /&gt;
  for some condo property.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The “Berlin Wall” that weaves it’s way around and through Palestinian<br />
  land, you know, the one Sharon took Bush and Condi up in a copter in<br />
  summer 2000 to show the future route of. It is a long way from that<br />
  back to the day of our denunciation of the Berlin Wall. Don’t get<br />
  the apartheid argument, look what happened to Jimmy Carter when he<br />
  described the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians as just that. Read<br />
  some Robert Fisk and find out what the chosen have done to their brothers<br />
  for some condo property.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56487</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is my entry on this from my scandals list.  It was written a long time ago.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;191. The Palestinian civil war.  January 2006 the populist and rejectionist Hamas (one of the Islamist organizations that Israel had supported in the past as a counterweight to Fatah) wins Parliamentary elections pushing out of government a corrupt but well entrenched Fatah.  Clashes between Fatah and Hamas militants begin almost immediately. Despite Bush’s oft stated support of democracy in the Middle East, the US organizes a boycott of Hamas.  The US and the Europeans cut off funds to the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Israel holds back tax receipts.  International banking transactions are blocked preventing aid from other countries.  The result is a sharp increase in unemployment, poverty, and radicalism in the Territories, especially Gaza where Hamas is strongest.  At the same time, the background pattern of Israeli and Palestinian attacks and counter-attacks continues.  In the deepening humanitarian and political crisis, Western governments led by the US seek to do end runs around Hamas funneling aid directly to the Palestinian people bypassing the PA and backing the Fatah Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas as an alternative to Hamas.  In addition to political support, the US supplies Fatah security forces with weapons.  A national unity government is finally cobbled together in February 2007 but doesn’t last.  &lt;strong&gt;In May, 500 Fatah fighters enter Gaza from Egypt with Israeli approval and Bush okays $40 million to train 4,000 troops directly under Abbas’ control.  Violence flares in June 2007 and greatly outnumbered and outgunned Fatah fighters are kicked out of Gaza.  On June 14, 2007, Abbas dissolves the “national unity” government.   A few days later on June 16, Fatah forces effectively expel Hamas from the West Bank.  Instead of accepting the results of a democratic election and engaging with its opponents, the Bush Administration fomented a civil war.&lt;/strong&gt;  As has happened so many times before, it didn’t do its homework or the math, and the consequences were once again not those it expected. The Palestinians are even weaker and more divided.  Gaza has real potential to become a full blown humanitarian crisis.  The situation is more dangerous and peace even further away. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my entry on this from my scandals list.  It was written a long time ago.</p>
<blockquote><p>191. The Palestinian civil war.  January 2006 the populist and rejectionist Hamas (one of the Islamist organizations that Israel had supported in the past as a counterweight to Fatah) wins Parliamentary elections pushing out of government a corrupt but well entrenched Fatah.  Clashes between Fatah and Hamas militants begin almost immediately. Despite Bush’s oft stated support of democracy in the Middle East, the US organizes a boycott of Hamas.  The US and the Europeans cut off funds to the Palestinian Authority (PA).  Israel holds back tax receipts.  International banking transactions are blocked preventing aid from other countries.  The result is a sharp increase in unemployment, poverty, and radicalism in the Territories, especially Gaza where Hamas is strongest.  At the same time, the background pattern of Israeli and Palestinian attacks and counter-attacks continues.  In the deepening humanitarian and political crisis, Western governments led by the US seek to do end runs around Hamas funneling aid directly to the Palestinian people bypassing the PA and backing the Fatah Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas as an alternative to Hamas.  In addition to political support, the US supplies Fatah security forces with weapons.  A national unity government is finally cobbled together in February 2007 but doesn’t last.  <strong>In May, 500 Fatah fighters enter Gaza from Egypt with Israeli approval and Bush okays $40 million to train 4,000 troops directly under Abbas’ control.  Violence flares in June 2007 and greatly outnumbered and outgunned Fatah fighters are kicked out of Gaza.  On June 14, 2007, Abbas dissolves the “national unity” government.   A few days later on June 16, Fatah forces effectively expel Hamas from the West Bank.  Instead of accepting the results of a democratic election and engaging with its opponents, the Bush Administration fomented a civil war.</strong>  As has happened so many times before, it didn’t do its homework or the math, and the consequences were once again not those it expected. The Palestinians are even weaker and more divided.  Gaza has real potential to become a full blown humanitarian crisis.  The situation is more dangerous and peace even further away. </p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56486</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56486</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I bought my copy at the B&amp;N at Har Mar the day they were first put on the shelf — in fact, I took mine off the cart.  They had on order, according to the staffer fixing the shelves, 5o copies, some pre-ordered, and they put out 20.  I’ve been keeping count, and it looks like they have sold all but five.  I was there last week — so they could have sold more by now.  Just checking at the desk — it looks like they re-ordered last week, so it is apparently selling reasonably well.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The material on Hagee and his Christian Zionists is getting reported much as M&amp;W wrote it, so at least some in the MSM have dipped in and read.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought my copy at the B&amp;N at Har Mar the day they were first put on the shelf — in fact, I took mine off the cart.  They had on order, according to the staffer fixing the shelves, 5o copies, some pre-ordered, and they put out 20.  I’ve been keeping count, and it looks like they have sold all but five.  I was there last week — so they could have sold more by now.  Just checking at the desk — it looks like they re-ordered last week, so it is apparently selling reasonably well.  </p>
<p>The material on Hagee and his Christian Zionists is getting reported much as M&amp;W wrote it, so at least some in the MSM have dipped in and read.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56484</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56484</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JohnJ, like you I found the ‘Armageddon’ talk to nutso to believe. However, I was working on a project that put me in frequent contact for several months with some fundamentalists whose beliefs lie along the ‘Armageddon’ end of the spectrum.  (They’ll be ‘Raptured’, so they don’t have to worry about things that people like my ‘unRaptured’ self fret over, like Iran-Contra 2.0.)  It’s a fairly different view of the world, with interesting implications.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But two excellent resources if you have time/interest are:&lt;br /&gt;
Kevin Phillips: American Theocracy&lt;br /&gt;
Craig Unger: Fall of the House of Bush&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Both excellent, and both dive into the historical roots, and the implications, of the ‘Rapture Believers’.&lt;br /&gt;
Not a belief system that, IMHO, has any merit when it comes to driving foreign policy.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;——&lt;br /&gt;
OT, but:&lt;br /&gt;
(And yeah, kids with Downs can be really sweet spirits  &lt;br /&gt;
(And I hope you are aware of the high incidence of children with Downs Syndrome who have been born to VietNam Vets who were exposed to Agent Orange? I also happen to know a Vietnamese family with a very sweet son seriously affected with Downs; both parents are originally from an area deforested by Agent Orange. Don’t know whether there are any links between VietNam and your 16 year old, but I agree that kids with Downs can be really good natured.  FWIW.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnJ, like you I found the ‘Armageddon’ talk to nutso to believe. However, I was working on a project that put me in frequent contact for several months with some fundamentalists whose beliefs lie along the ‘Armageddon’ end of the spectrum.  (They’ll be ‘Raptured’, so they don’t have to worry about things that people like my ‘unRaptured’ self fret over, like Iran-Contra 2.0.)  It’s a fairly different view of the world, with interesting implications.</p>
<p>But two excellent resources if you have time/interest are:<br />
Kevin Phillips: American Theocracy<br />
Craig Unger: Fall of the House of Bush</p>
<p>Both excellent, and both dive into the historical roots, and the implications, of the ‘Rapture Believers’.<br />
Not a belief system that, IMHO, has any merit when it comes to driving foreign policy.  </p>
<p>——<br />
OT, but:<br />
(And yeah, kids with Downs can be really sweet spirits  <br />
(And I hope you are aware of the high incidence of children with Downs Syndrome who have been born to VietNam Vets who were exposed to Agent Orange? I also happen to know a Vietnamese family with a very sweet son seriously affected with Downs; both parents are originally from an area deforested by Agent Orange. Don’t know whether there are any links between VietNam and your 16 year old, but I agree that kids with Downs can be really good natured.  FWIW.)</p>
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		<title>By: kspena</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56480</link>
		<dc:creator>kspena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;More on Admiral Mullen’s whereabouts today, surprise!!:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Azzaman, March 4, 2008&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, has made a surprise visit to the Sunni city of Huwaija and met former army officers, senior Iraqi police officer said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Colonel Fattah Abdullah said the admiral spent two hours in the city and held further meetings with its chief administrator and tribal leaders who have raised militias to support U.S. effort against al-Qaeda.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Huwaija once supplied the former Iraqi army with huge numbers of commissioned and non-commissioned officers. Many of them held influential posts in the Republican Guards, Saddam Hussein’s elite force.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Abdullah gave no details on content of the discussions Mullen had with the officers but the U.S. military in Iraq is giving growing attention to Sunnis who led the insurgency in the country….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.azzaman.com/english.....fname=news&lt;/a&gt;2008-03-04kurd.htm&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on Admiral Mullen’s whereabouts today, surprise!!:</p>
<p>Azzaman, March 4, 2008</p>
<p>Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, has made a surprise visit to the Sunni city of Huwaija and met former army officers, senior Iraqi police officer said.</p>
<p>Colonel Fattah Abdullah said the admiral spent two hours in the city and held further meetings with its chief administrator and tribal leaders who have raised militias to support U.S. effort against al-Qaeda.</p>
<p>Huwaija once supplied the former Iraqi army with huge numbers of commissioned and non-commissioned officers. Many of them held influential posts in the Republican Guards, Saddam Hussein’s elite force.</p>
<p>Abdullah gave no details on content of the discussions Mullen had with the officers but the U.S. military in Iraq is giving growing attention to Sunnis who led the insurgency in the country….</p>
<p><a href="http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news" rel="nofollow">http://www.azzaman.com/english&#8230;..fname=news</a>2008-03-04kurd.htm</p>
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		<title>By: FormerFed</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/04/iran-contra-20/#comment-56479</link>
		<dc:creator>FormerFed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t understand the apartheid comment. There are going to be Jews and Palestinians in both countries under any kind of fair agreement. See Ishmael @ 44 for a reasonable start to a fair agreement.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t understand the apartheid comment. There are going to be Jews and Palestinians in both countries under any kind of fair agreement. See Ishmael @ 44 for a reasonable start to a fair agreement.</p>
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