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	<title>Comments on: Waxman Hearing on White House Emails</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/</link>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55481</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55481</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Might I simply note, once again, how much I enjoy the commentary on this thread?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aren’t banks, insurance companies, health care corporations, and universities all just completely &lt;em&gt;okayyyyy&lt;/em&gt; with the idea that ANY user on their networks can overwrite ANY email sent at ANY time?    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why would that be a problem?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- - - - - - - - - - - - - -&lt;br /&gt;
But one question — re: @ 63, 64 — doesn’t this now obligate Fitz to subpeona WH OA if he suspects they might be able to recover even a single one of these emails…? Isn’t he obligated to do that if he suspects they can deliver info?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might I simply note, once again, how much I enjoy the commentary on this thread?</p>
<p>Aren’t banks, insurance companies, health care corporations, and universities all just completely <em>okayyyyy</em> with the idea that ANY user on their networks can overwrite ANY email sent at ANY time?    </p>
<p>Why would that be a problem?
</p>
<p>- &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211; - -<br />
But one question — re: @ 63, 64 — doesn’t this now obligate Fitz to subpeona WH OA if he suspects they might be able to recover even a single one of these emails…? Isn’t he obligated to do that if he suspects they can deliver info?</p>
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		<title>By: jdmckay</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55456</link>
		<dc:creator>jdmckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55456</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Clay: What did WH do when it learned its system was inadequate.  In previous testimony, you’ve talked about how much this will cost. It’s a cavalier attitude, where does the care come in for taxpayer analysis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: we want a targeted list for restore.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Clay: Yet no one heeded their own warning. What was that about? Maybe we need to listen to archive, or to our own staff.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: I wasn’t there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton does this dance repeatedly, eg. eliciting details suggesting care/analysis/etc. for a safe/reliable (etc.) restore… she expresses such “careful” considerations repeatedly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would point out restore doesn’t need a special system, rather only an installed Exchange server in order to search those records.  Rebuilding a more reliable email server is entirely different exploit.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Using this “care” excuse as reason records have not been examined is specious… in the extreme.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve done this exact same stuff a gazillion times.  I find her entirely unbelievable. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also find Rep Mica to be a rather nauseating individual.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Clay: What did WH do when it learned its system was inadequate.  In previous testimony, you’ve talked about how much this will cost. It’s a cavalier attitude, where does the care come in for taxpayer analysis.</p>
<p>Payton: we want a targeted list for restore.</p>
<p>Clay: Yet no one heeded their own warning. What was that about? Maybe we need to listen to archive, or to our own staff.</p>
<p>Payton: I wasn’t there.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Payton does this dance repeatedly, eg. eliciting details suggesting care/analysis/etc. for a safe/reliable (etc.) restore… she expresses such “careful” considerations repeatedly.</p>
<p>I would point out restore doesn’t need a special system, rather only an installed Exchange server in order to search those records.  Rebuilding a more reliable email server is entirely different exploit.  </p>
<p>Using this “care” excuse as reason records have not been examined is specious… in the extreme.</p>
<p>I’ve done this exact same stuff a gazillion times.  I find her entirely unbelievable. </p>
<p>I also find Rep Mica to be a rather nauseating individual.</p>
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		<title>By: jdmckay</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55428</link>
		<dc:creator>jdmckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55428</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Davis: These people are not responsible for RNC emails. The other thing that troubles me, when you have a committee, we shouldn’t have this come out of their coffers. We might look at an appropriation.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(NOTE: Davis also said it’s cost RNC lots of $$/RNC should not have to pay these costs responding to congressional inquiries.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sheesh… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Davis: It covers everything that happened. Are there backups for all the missing emails?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: we believe we should have backups.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Davis: It’s recoverable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: We believe we can use disaster recovery if we need to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Davis: It is expensive, is it not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: Team put together algorithm, rough approximation, 1 component, 1 day, around $50,000.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“put together algorighm?” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pure bullshit… disk images are an ISO standard.  You can by this stuff all over the place, for $39 - $200.  The restore functions come with all of ‘em.  THERE IS NO ALGORITHM TO WRITE!!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You just point the restore function to available disk, click, go get some coffee, and sit back and read EMPTYWHEEL for a few hours. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Davis: Ballpark number?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Payton: There’s also servers that would have to be purchased. $500,000 for servers.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;no way Jose… not even 25% of that.  And you don’t need all that to restore images, only disk space.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; If we restored every day, somewhere in ballpark of 15 million or more. It should be recoverable. Caveat, don’t know if there will be a flaw in a tape. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;She’s just making it up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If all this time’s gone by, and images have been known to exist, there’s nothing to do but run a restore.  She’s just making canned statements irrelevant to issue at hand (watching rerun of this on CSPAN2 now).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t believe a word she says.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Davis: These people are not responsible for RNC emails. The other thing that troubles me, when you have a committee, we shouldn’t have this come out of their coffers. We might look at an appropriation.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(NOTE: Davis also said it’s cost RNC lots of $$/RNC should not have to pay these costs responding to congressional inquiries.)</p>
<p>Sheesh… </p>
<blockquote><p>Davis: It covers everything that happened. Are there backups for all the missing emails?</p>
<p>Payton: we believe we should have backups.</p>
<p>Davis: It’s recoverable.</p>
<p>Payton: We believe we can use disaster recovery if we need to.</p>
<p>Davis: It is expensive, is it not.</p>
<p>Payton: Team put together algorithm, rough approximation, 1 component, 1 day, around $50,000.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>“put together algorighm?” </p>
<p>Pure bullshit… disk images are an ISO standard.  You can by this stuff all over the place, for $39 &#8211; $200.  The restore functions come with all of ‘em.  THERE IS NO ALGORITHM TO WRITE!!!</p>
<p>You just point the restore function to available disk, click, go get some coffee, and sit back and read EMPTYWHEEL for a few hours. </p>
<blockquote><p>Davis: Ballpark number?</p>
<p>Payton: There’s also servers that would have to be purchased. $500,000 for servers.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>no way Jose… not even 25% of that.  And you don’t need all that to restore images, only disk space.</p>
<blockquote><p> If we restored every day, somewhere in ballpark of 15 million or more. It should be recoverable. Caveat, don’t know if there will be a flaw in a tape. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>She’s just making it up.</p>
<p>If all this time’s gone by, and images have been known to exist, there’s nothing to do but run a restore.  She’s just making canned statements irrelevant to issue at hand (watching rerun of this on CSPAN2 now).</p>
<p>I don’t believe a word she says.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55303</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55303</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Comment #149 applies to #146, the “reply” button having not worked again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment #149 applies to #146, the “reply” button having not worked again.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55301</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55301</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I should have added that the Constitution prohibits Congress from making past acts criminal; it can only make future conduct criminal, that is, only after it puts citizens on notice that such acts are prohibited and subject to criminal sanctions.  (The &lt;em&gt;ex post facto&lt;/em&gt; clause.)  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Since the GOP continues to vote in lockstep, and resolutely supports its Leader (as well as George Bush), the Presidential Records Act won’t lead to much punishment - or deter much behavior - during this administration.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even unamended, however, it can be one of the bases for various criminal and congressional investigations, as it now supports Waxman’s inquiry into how well it is being complied with and how Congress ought to change it in future.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Such investigations document behavior that may violate other laws that have more teeth, including catchalls like perjury and obstruction of justice, which is what caught Libby and almost caught Rove.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have added that the Constitution prohibits Congress from making past acts criminal; it can only make future conduct criminal, that is, only after it puts citizens on notice that such acts are prohibited and subject to criminal sanctions.  (The <em>ex post facto</em> clause.)  </p>
<p>Since the GOP continues to vote in lockstep, and resolutely supports its Leader (as well as George Bush), the Presidential Records Act won’t lead to much punishment &#8211; or deter much behavior &#8211; during this administration.  </p>
<p>Even unamended, however, it can be one of the bases for various criminal and congressional investigations, as it now supports Waxman’s inquiry into how well it is being complied with and how Congress ought to change it in future.  </p>
<p>Such investigations document behavior that may violate other laws that have more teeth, including catchalls like perjury and obstruction of justice, which is what caught Libby and almost caught Rove.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55289</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55289</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Test&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Test</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55199</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55199</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It may be a two-man, but they won’t be hu-man&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be a two-man, but they won’t be hu-man</p>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55198</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55198</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, I figured.  Actually I rather think Dem spine is in significantly increased evidence today.  Anyone know what gives?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I figured.  Actually I rather think Dem spine is in significantly increased evidence today.  Anyone know what gives?</p>
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		<title>By: pseudonymousinnc</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55197</link>
		<dc:creator>pseudonymousinnc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55197</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;What, are you trying to help Turdblossom and Dick lose some weight?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dick’ll just have to upgrade to a two-man-sized safe.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What, are you trying to help Turdblossom and Dick lose some weight?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Dick’ll just have to upgrade to a two-man-sized safe.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/comment-page-2/#comment-55194</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/02/26/waxman-hearing-on-white-house-emails/#comment-55194</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Comment #143 was marked as a reply to #137.  Didn’t process correctly, again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment #143 was marked as a reply to #137.  Didn’t process correctly, again.</p>
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