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	<title>Comments on: Yet More Communications Dirty Business: Karl Rove and Philip Zelikow</title>
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		<title>By: Citizen92</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-2/#comment-48837</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen92</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/#comment-48837</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here’s the full list of the (known) Executive Staff of the 9/11 Commission.  Wonder who else has an axe to grind?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Joanne Accolla, Alexis Albion, Scott Allan, John Azzarello, Caroline Barnes, Warren Bas, Ann Bennett, Mark Bittinger, Madeleine Blot, Antwion Blount, Geoff Brown, Daniel Byman, Dianna Campagna, Sam Caspersen, Melissa Coffey, Lance Cole, Marquittia Coleman, Marco Cordero, Raj De Counsel, George Delgrosso, Gerald L. Dillingham, Thomas Dowling, Steven Dunne, Thomas Eldridge, John Farmer, Alvin Felzenberg, Gordon England, Lorry Fenner, Susan Ginsburg, T. Graham Giusti, Nicole Grandrimo, Doug Greenburg, Barbara Grewe, Elinore Hartz, Len Hawley, Christine Healey, Karen Heitkotter, Walt Hempel, Michael Hurley, Dana Hyde, Michael Jacobson, Bonnie Jenkins, Reginald Johnson, William Johnstone, Stephanie Kaplan, Miles Kara, Janice Kephart-Roberts, Hyon Kim, Christopher Kojm, Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk, Gordon Lederman, Daniel Leopold, Sarah Linden, Douglas MacEachin, Daniel Marcus, Ernest May, James Miller, Kelly Moore, Charles Pereira, John Raidt, John Roth, Peter Rundlet, Lloyd Salvetti, Kevin Scheid, Kevin Shaeffer, Tracy Shycoff, Dietrich Snell, Jonathan Stull, Lisa Sullivan, John Tamm, Cate Taylor, Yoel Tobin, Emily Walker, Garth Wermter, Serena Wille.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s the full list of the (known) Executive Staff of the 9/11 Commission.  Wonder who else has an axe to grind?</p>
<p>Joanne Accolla, Alexis Albion, Scott Allan, John Azzarello, Caroline Barnes, Warren Bas, Ann Bennett, Mark Bittinger, Madeleine Blot, Antwion Blount, Geoff Brown, Daniel Byman, Dianna Campagna, Sam Caspersen, Melissa Coffey, Lance Cole, Marquittia Coleman, Marco Cordero, Raj De Counsel, George Delgrosso, Gerald L. Dillingham, Thomas Dowling, Steven Dunne, Thomas Eldridge, John Farmer, Alvin Felzenberg, Gordon England, Lorry Fenner, Susan Ginsburg, T. Graham Giusti, Nicole Grandrimo, Doug Greenburg, Barbara Grewe, Elinore Hartz, Len Hawley, Christine Healey, Karen Heitkotter, Walt Hempel, Michael Hurley, Dana Hyde, Michael Jacobson, Bonnie Jenkins, Reginald Johnson, William Johnstone, Stephanie Kaplan, Miles Kara, Janice Kephart-Roberts, Hyon Kim, Christopher Kojm, Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk, Gordon Lederman, Daniel Leopold, Sarah Linden, Douglas MacEachin, Daniel Marcus, Ernest May, James Miller, Kelly Moore, Charles Pereira, John Raidt, John Roth, Peter Rundlet, Lloyd Salvetti, Kevin Scheid, Kevin Shaeffer, Tracy Shycoff, Dietrich Snell, Jonathan Stull, Lisa Sullivan, John Tamm, Cate Taylor, Yoel Tobin, Emily Walker, Garth Wermter, Serena Wille.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen92</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-2/#comment-48831</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen92</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I remember back when they were “standing up” this organization.  At the time I was working with one of the Commissioners.  It was totally ad hoc, borrowed adminstrative personnel and being run by GSA.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It would have an organization easily co-opted early on.  But Zelikow probably forgot step one, which is, ALWAYS, be nice to the administrative staff.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember back when they were “standing up” this organization.  At the time I was working with one of the Commissioners.  It was totally ad hoc, borrowed adminstrative personnel and being run by GSA.</p>
<p>It would have an organization easily co-opted early on.  But Zelikow probably forgot step one, which is, ALWAYS, be nice to the administrative staff.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnJ</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-2/#comment-48806</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am sorry to say that any Attorney’s client that think there is some moral, ethical, or fairness underpinning to our laws and courts is a newcomer. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The court system, to those of us not making lots of money off the process, is a rich kid’s gotcha game that almost randomly pulls some of us into the game. It’s kinda’ like a polo match which pulls in people passing by to be the ball, hit by rich people that are out of reach on their horses. Everyone else in the courtroom gets to go home tonight, congratulating themselves, EXCEPT the newest conscripted player. This is evidenced by the system’s method of dealing with it’s own mistakes (NOT if they can help it!)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; I do agree with a lot of the “rants” of BigBrother, especially to do with the manufactured “crimes” of drug use and the like. Does anyone else see a systemic conflict of interest to have “private” &lt;strike&gt;gulags&lt;/strike&gt; prisons?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am not condemning everyone in the system, we actually do need deal with bad apples, it’s just that they are kind of lost in the game.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I was talking to a friend of mine at a bar one night. He laid out for my how basically, the jury system is irretrievably broken and very rarely comes to fair decisions. I found out later, from his assistant (he wouldn’t tell me), that he was a judge and is now doing constitutional arguments before the state Supreme Court. I think that adds weight to his opinion. *g*&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a kid, I always thought we had the greatest legal system in the world; growing up is a bitch.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry to say that any Attorney’s client that think there is some moral, ethical, or fairness underpinning to our laws and courts is a newcomer. </p>
<p>The court system, to those of us not making lots of money off the process, is a rich kid’s gotcha game that almost randomly pulls some of us into the game. It’s kinda’ like a polo match which pulls in people passing by to be the ball, hit by rich people that are out of reach on their horses. Everyone else in the courtroom gets to go home tonight, congratulating themselves, EXCEPT the newest conscripted player. This is evidenced by the system’s method of dealing with it’s own mistakes (NOT if they can help it!)</p>
<p> I do agree with a lot of the “rants” of BigBrother, especially to do with the manufactured “crimes” of drug use and the like. Does anyone else see a systemic conflict of interest to have “private” <strike>gulags</strike> prisons?</p>
<p>I am not condemning everyone in the system, we actually do need deal with bad apples, it’s just that they are kind of lost in the game.</p>
<p>I was talking to a friend of mine at a bar one night. He laid out for my how basically, the jury system is irretrievably broken and very rarely comes to fair decisions. I found out later, from his assistant (he wouldn’t tell me), that he was a judge and is now doing constitutional arguments before the state Supreme Court. I think that adds weight to his opinion. *g*</p>
<p>As a kid, I always thought we had the greatest legal system in the world; growing up is a bitch.</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-2/#comment-48802</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/#comment-48802</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;from zelikow’s speech:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;the cool, carefully considered, methodical, prolonged, and repeated subjection of captives to physical torment, &lt;em&gt;and the accompanying psychological terror&lt;/em&gt;, is immoral.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  [my italics]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let me offer this up.  If ever there is need for someone to detail all the “psychological terror” that would result here, how the environment, and the deprivation, and the torment, and the way someone is treated, I am more than willing to sit down and write something up.  Because I think too often any torture method is described as simply something physical that started and ended, without any explanation of the whole context that surrounds it and imbues it with “terror.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When I read these words above, it simply makes my blood run cold:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;cool,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; carefully considered,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; methodical,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; prolonged,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; and repeated&lt;br /&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
physical torment,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; and the accompanying psychological terror
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One reads that and there can be no doubt this was purposeful, calculated, insidious, and had to have been authorized “at the highest levels” - if not, observed at the highest levels.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from zelikow’s speech:</p>
<blockquote><p>the cool, carefully considered, methodical, prolonged, and repeated subjection of captives to physical torment, <em>and the accompanying psychological terror</em>, is immoral.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>  [my italics]</p>
<p>Let me offer this up.  If ever there is need for someone to detail all the “psychological terror” that would result here, how the environment, and the deprivation, and the torment, and the way someone is treated, I am more than willing to sit down and write something up.  Because I think too often any torture method is described as simply something physical that started and ended, without any explanation of the whole context that surrounds it and imbues it with “terror.”</p>
<p>When I read these words above, it simply makes my blood run cold:</p>
<blockquote><p>cool,</p>
<p> carefully considered,</p>
<p> methodical,</p>
<p> prolonged,</p>
<p> and repeated<br />
…<br />
physical torment,</p>
<p> and the accompanying psychological terror
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>One reads that and there can be no doubt this was purposeful, calculated, insidious, and had to have been authorized “at the highest levels” &#8211; if not, observed at the highest levels.</p>
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		<title>By: AbeServer</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-2/#comment-48767</link>
		<dc:creator>AbeServer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why would Zelikow’s secretary bust him like this?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps because he is known to be a pompous ass?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would Zelikow’s secretary bust him like this?</p>
<p>Perhaps because he is known to be a pompous ass?</p>
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		<title>By: victoria</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-1/#comment-48757</link>
		<dc:creator>victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;oops, I should have limited that to ‘and justice for all’.  Bush has been given plenty of ‘liberty’.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, I should have limited that to ‘and justice for all’.  Bush has been given plenty of ‘liberty’.</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-1/#comment-48756</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder how many investigations kark rove has obstructed.  Two sounds too low.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how many investigations kark rove has obstructed.  Two sounds too low.</p>
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		<title>By: victoria</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-1/#comment-48755</link>
		<dc:creator>victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think I want to say the Pledge any longer.  At first I objected to the 1950’s inclusion of ‘under god’, now I object even more strongly to ‘with liberty and justice for all’.  Now we must add “except for the Bush administration”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think I want to say the Pledge any longer.  At first I objected to the 1950’s inclusion of ‘under god’, now I object even more strongly to ‘with liberty and justice for all’.  Now we must add “except for the Bush administration”.</p>
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		<title>By: bigbrother</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-1/#comment-48731</link>
		<dc:creator>bigbrother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;At first I was angry at the law community. Now I see what you are all facing.&lt;br /&gt;
1. The US population that has been criminalised is reaching a tipping point where their behavior is so prevalent as to be legal by accepted prctices socially. I am referring to the wide class/crossing use of drugs…example the PRESIDENT OF THE USA is an admitted past drug user. Police academies have to accept candidates that have abused drugs.&lt;br /&gt;
The jails are filled with people who are using drugs in a culture where big PHARMA dispenses a pill for almost every complaint.&lt;br /&gt;
2.Almost the entire world sees us as criminals, thugs and bullies who RAPE, PILLAGE, STEAL AND DESTROY at will.&lt;br /&gt;
When the rules of engagement become shot first and aske questions later. When the war crimes are not tried but swept under the rug.&lt;br /&gt;
When Americans are not allowed to know what their governments are doing in their name. When our constitutional rights are denied by a rogue executive branch then we all know that the rule of law is not working. The world knows that the leaders of the free world have lost their moral compass. We all know that a great part of the wealth of the free…and I use the term loosely…world is owned by lawyers.&lt;br /&gt;
That means you hold the ring of power.&lt;br /&gt;
What other nations have done is centralize their wealth in the hands of a few just as you have done. We have created a model of power and wealth distribution that leaves most of the worlds billion in poverty. It is a fuedal system, run btycorporate governnmen not unlike the one we overthrew in the revolutionary war for american independence from Britian and the King of England. &lt;strong&gt;The rule of the NICE PEOPLE&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
yOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS… YOU CANNOT BE NICE AND CRUEL AT THE SAME TIME. You are as they say wallowing in the mire and have lost your moral compass.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first I was angry at the law community. Now I see what you are all facing.<br />
1. The US population that has been criminalised is reaching a tipping point where their behavior is so prevalent as to be legal by accepted prctices socially. I am referring to the wide class/crossing use of drugs…example the PRESIDENT OF THE USA is an admitted past drug user. Police academies have to accept candidates that have abused drugs.<br />
The jails are filled with people who are using drugs in a culture where big PHARMA dispenses a pill for almost every complaint.<br />
2.Almost the entire world sees us as criminals, thugs and bullies who RAPE, PILLAGE, STEAL AND DESTROY at will.<br />
When the rules of engagement become shot first and aske questions later. When the war crimes are not tried but swept under the rug.<br />
When Americans are not allowed to know what their governments are doing in their name. When our constitutional rights are denied by a rogue executive branch then we all know that the rule of law is not working. The world knows that the leaders of the free world have lost their moral compass. We all know that a great part of the wealth of the free…and I use the term loosely…world is owned by lawyers.<br />
That means you hold the ring of power.<br />
What other nations have done is centralize their wealth in the hands of a few just as you have done. We have created a model of power and wealth distribution that leaves most of the worlds billion in poverty. It is a fuedal system, run btycorporate governnmen not unlike the one we overthrew in the revolutionary war for american independence from Britian and the King of England. <strong>The rule of the NICE PEOPLE</strong>.<br />
yOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS… YOU CANNOT BE NICE AND CRUEL AT THE SAME TIME. You are as they say wallowing in the mire and have lost your moral compass.</p>
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		<title>By: bigbrother</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/yet-more-communications-dirty-business-karl-rove-and-philip-zelikow/comment-page-1/#comment-48729</link>
		<dc:creator>bigbrother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The legal community owes the american public something. The have to bring out what has been done to us and others. To took some oaths or some ethical code by which to practice or the legal community has become to law what Elmer Gantry wss to religion; a scam.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The legal community owes the american public something. The have to bring out what has been done to us and others. To took some oaths or some ethical code by which to practice or the legal community has become to law what Elmer Gantry wss to religion; a scam.</p>
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