Login HereI haven't liveblogged in a while, so what the heck. Watch along here or here.
Leahy
Leahy starts by highlighting civil liberties violations, naming Bradbury.
We join together to press for accountability and that led to a change in leadership. Today we continue our efforts to restore DOJ.
[Leahy mentions the torture tapes, but focuses on the CIA's unwillingness to tell the 9/11 Commission.]
Today we will get some kind of indication whether the AG will restore checks and balances. It is not enough to say that waterboarding is not currently authorized. Torture has no place in America. Tragically, this Administration has so twisted our values that top officers are instructed by the WH not to say that torture is illegal.
[Lists the people we've prosecuted for waterboarding.]
That is not America.
Arlen "Scottish Haggis" Specter [incidentally, the first person I ran into when I walked into Congress on Monday was Specter, just coming off the floor having voted against cloture. I contemplated thanking him for his no vote. But then I doubted that "Scottish Haggis, I appreciate that you finally voted your conscience" would go over very well.]
Scottish Haggis agrees that Bush has pushed Article II. Discussion torture, still focusing on Article II powers.
Leahy swears Mukasey in.
Mukasey's statement. Suggests Bush's stonewalling just a sign of how well the Constitution works. [Remind me to tell you about Schumer's comment on Mukasey, an attempt to justify his picking him.]
"Committed to review CIA interrogation program. Carefully reviewed limited set of methods authorized, concluded they are lawful. Aware that you address specifically address waterboarding. I have been authorized to say waterboarding is not among techniques currently used. Passing on its legality is not among the scope of what I promised to review."
ARGH!!
CIA Director would have to ask to use waterboarding, would have to outline its use, the issue would have to go the President.
Leahy: First question, brings up Ridge's and McConnell's comments that waterboarding is torture. Mukasey dodges, says he can't say anything because he's AG.
MM: I know that if I address a complex legal question without having concrete circumstances before me, yadda yadda yadda.
Leahy: I think the failure to say something puts some of our people in more danger.
Mukasey: Our military won't be affect by what I say. They're legal soldiers.
[Mukasey's logic here is that we're allowed to torture people who are illegal combatants.]
Leahy: I'm afraid this would put them in more danger.
Leahy: The telecoms cut off their FISA wiretaps when we don't pay the bill. You and the Admin talk about how critical FISA is to national security. So why are we not paying our bill and having this get cut off?
Leahy: What payments were made in the five years prior to it coming under FISA?
MM: If that is not classified I can get it. But whether or not a telecom participated is classified.
Leahy: CIA torture tapes. Are you looking into question of destruction or conduct shown?
MM: That investigation is going to go fact by fact, witness to witness. If it leads to showing motive, I'm sure it'll lead to showing motive.
Leahy: You were in line to receive monitoring contract. Some of these contracts concern me. Chris Christie directed a multi-million dollar one to Ashcroft. I'm waiting for an answer to the letter I've got. How did you come to be considered?
MM: I was proposed by the company. [Interesting, that. When did they offer.] Deferred prosecution agreements have become more prevalent so corporations can break the law but not be punished for it. [He didn't say that, exactly.] So far as it being a no-bid contract, we're not talking about public money.
Arlen "Scottish Haggis": Oops, I missed a bit--but he tried to get MM to admit that Bush had violated the law with his warrantless wiretap program. MM got into some parsing about "electronic communications." I do hope they come back to this.
Haggis: Torture tapes. You told us we would be interfering with political issues. Do you intend to comply with Kennedy's request on the torture tapes.
MM: Considerations underlying declination to provide Congress with information based on fact that ...
Haggis: You say it's not never, it's certainly not now. Pitches his immunity "compromise" again. Courts provide a balance to review executive overstep.
MM: It would continue to make conduct of companies front and center.
[Well, goddamned it, why not let us punish Dick, then??]
Haggis: Why shouldn't it be front and center. Why should the courts be foreclosed?
Haggis still pissed Cheney went behind his back.
MM: It puts means and methods in the courts. It casts in doubt the question of whether they acted in good faith. They had every reason to believe they acted in good faith.
[No, they ignored the fact that for some reason Gonzales signed the authorization rather than Comey or Ashcroft.]
Haggis: There's a much greater danger in having Congress bail out the companies.
Teddy: I want to thank you for a number of positive steps. [Always start with a positive...] These steps show sensitivity to appearance of conflicts, I'm troubled that you didn't make Durham an independent counsel. Waterboarding, Civil Rights Division and voting.
Waterboarding has become worldwide symbol of America's torture. Even though you claim to be opposed to torture, you refuse to say anything about what constitutes torture. It's like saying you're opposed to stealing but not sure whether bank robbery would qualify. [Nice framing, Teddy.] You once again refuse to state the obvious. You refused to discuss that the Administration did use waterboarding and no one is being held accountable. CIA continues to use stress positions, every bit as abusive as waterboarding, illegal and ineffective. Would waterboarding be torture if it were done to you?
MM: I would feel that it was. You're assuming that waterboarding is torture. I point out that this is an issue on which people of equal intelligence and equal good faith have differed. I should not go into bc of the office I have the detailed way in which department would apply general language to particular situation.
[I'm going to nickname this the Michael Mukasey Good Faith show. Note, he dodged the "how do we hold people responsible" issue.]
Teddy: Under what facts and circumstances would it be lawful.
MM: I said I should do this.
Teddy: Are there any interrogation techniques that you would find to me fundamentally illegal.
MM: We may not rape.
[Then why haven't the guys who were filmed raping Iraqi boys and women prosecuted?]
Teddy: Naturalization backlog. Potential US citizens hoping to vote in upcoming elections. Basic fairness dictates that these applications are processed to allow these individuals to vote. Fees have been increased. Lines growing longer. Hundreds of thousands qualified to vote that will note vote.
MM: That's Michael Chertoff's deal. We'll do everything we can to make sure those authorized to vote will vote.
Teddy: What is the department doing to give a sense of urgency to move ahead on this?
MM: I will find out what contacts have been and I will work with you.
Grassley: [This is about whistleblowers] Unanimous consent, opening statement be part of statement. During confirmation hearing you assured me you'd assist my oversight efforts. Prior to this hearing dept provided requests going back to March 2007, got them on Friday, 4 days to digest 250 pages of answers. Buried in the responses, response to Qs 64-83, answers will be provided separately. They were not. I'm troubled that I get responses stating one thing. When can I expect this response from FBI that I've been waiting for since March 2007. Can I expect them before a full year has passed.
MM: I don't know what the questions are. Will talk to Director.
Grassley: Whistleblowers from FBI, ought to be encouraged to come forward and ought to be protected. Most difficult with Nat Security security clearances. Can report wrong-doing to supervisors, or can sit silent.
Grassley: Why not report to Congress on whistleblowing.
MM: Partly security clearance, but that cuts off the President.
[He's basically saying the President can prevent whisteblowers to report to Congress on issues that might reflect on Bush's behavior.]
Grassley: if they've got security clearance, they've got security clearance.
MM: Maintaining Executive's right to supervise employees up to and including President.
Grassley: You've got a problem reconciling chain of command that wants to hide wrong-doing in the first place, you're talking going all the way up to the President, you've got plenty of people that don't want Congress to know if something has gone wrong, because they've got egg on their face.
Biden: You're speaking of torture as if its relative.
MM: Only partly. Heinousness, cruelty balanced against the value.
Biden: Value of what?
MM: The information you get.
Biden: Shocking of conscience relates to purpose. Waterboarding to save humanity v. waterboarding to find out the leader. I don't think shocking the conscience had to do with basic societal values. You're the first person I've ever heard saying what you just said. I've never heard that discussion.
Biden went off on violent crime. I was trying to catch up on my email.
Biden: As Ronald Reagan said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You guys broke it. [wrt violent crime.]
Jeff "Mututal Protection Racket" Sessions: The military never waterboarded, correct? And the CIA only waterboarded a few select people, right?
MM: I can't say that. Abu Ghraib was not torture, it was prison abuse. And they were prosecuted.
[News to me, aside from the bad apples implementing orders.]
MM: DOJ has prosecuted one contractor for prisoner abuse.
"Mutual Protection Racket": Widescale abuse is not true. [This is our new measure, whether we torture a lot or just a little.]
"Mutual Protection Racket": Illegal entry is a crime. Zero tolerance on illegal immigration. And it works.
Zero tolerance zero tolerance zero tolerance zero tolerance zero tolerance.
[LOL! Mutual Protection Racket is complaining that we're spending more money prosecuting corporate bribery than illegal entry. I wonder why he'd prefer prosecution of illegal entry than bribery...??]
MM: The border difficulties are different at different parts of the border.
[MM basically says, "Carol Lam was right."]
"Mutual Protection Racket" interrupts, to stop MM from saying Lam was right: Will you commit to expanding this?
MM: Yes.
Leahy: Letter from a bunch of top JAGs into the record. They all say waterboarding is torture. And a letter sent to you from three of our colleagues, McCain, Graham, Warner, saying they consider it torture.
Kohl: Local law enforcement programs.
MM: Funding of targeted programs is certainly a priority.
Kohl: On Gitmo. Are you ready to add your name to the list of those who want to close Gitmo.
MM: The President wants to close Gitmo if we can do it responsibly. Whether there is some alternative to Habeas that would be sufficient.
Kohl: Court secrecy. Secret settlements in courts. Judges continue to provide court-endorsed secrecy, in many cases has led to injuries that could have been prevented. Should courts be required to take a look at protective orders on public health and safety?
MM: Courts should always take a look at protective order when it involves public safety. I don't know of any case where court sweeping public safety under the rug, I would not want a court to do that.
[MM: how can you say that, answering a hypothetical, when you want do the same with torture?]
Kohl: Should we require judges to consider public safety.
MM: A judge should consider public safety.
Brownback: Gitmo. People are talking about moving Gitmo detainees to Leavenworth, and as a Kansan, we're not ready for them to move. I don't think it's prepared for the detainees coming from Gitmo. [Brownback, consider it your version of Yucca Mountain] Beyond that, top military leaders go very closely to Leavenworth.
MM: Practical considerations. No representative from any state would say his state is ready to accept Gitmo detainees. Then there's the legal effect of bringing them state-side.
[Pretending that the lawsuits are about releasing people rather than just getting them a review.]
MM: Before we move Gitmo to Leavenworth, I will come visit Leavenworth.
Brownback: Govt considering in intervening in PLO case. Let US citizens receive their awards from PLO. [interesting, does that mean BushCO are going to do the same thing they've done for Iraq for the PLO, in yet another attempt to prop up the PLO against Hamas??]
Brownback: Human trafficking.
[You know, MM is parsing the Republicans as much as he is the Democrats. He won't commit to do what Brownback and "Mutual Protection Racket" want either]
MM: trying to explain the DC handgun case. Would allow us to continue to enforce federal firearm laws.
Brownback: FISA, substitute ["some people want to substitute"--Is Browback saying this at Dick's behest as well??] I want to thank you for stepping into this job at a hard time. If these are uncomfortable topics, we all look at and rather not deal with it.
MM: Susbtitution, the conduct of the companies will be subject of dispute, would open up their conduct to scrutiny, they can't cooperate without a court order. The overarching point, this is limited immunity, doesn't apply to companies that didn't participate, and only those that did so after a request to President.
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Mukasey is nothing but a grandfatherly looking Abu Gonzo. Very little seems to have changed at the DoJ at least viewed from the outside.
Snarlin Arlen, if you tell us how you really feel about waterboarding, there are prosecutions at stake, so OK to keep it to yourself, we all know it is torture.
I just wanna go on record thanking Arlen for *not* wearing that yellow(?) suit he had on the other day…
Officially swearing in the AG. Gotta make sure he promises to tell the truth—whatever that means now in Bush-speak.
Murky looks nervous and un-settled this morning…not very concentrated.
Mukasey - “given that waterboarding is not part of the current program I don’t feel as though I can comment on it.” OK - there’s his out.
Dude, it used to be part of the program. How about that?
He should be nervious. He can’t tell the full truth, heck he can’t even admit that waterboarding is torture.
But I consider it unlikely that he will be called on any of his wordsmithing. If he was going to be pushed on it, it would have happened before.
Boxturtle (Is it torture? depends on what you mean by “is”)
Mukasey - “Waterboarding? - irrelevant - not happening, we’re not using it, so how’s about we just not talk about it, ok?”
Oh sh*t “it’s too hard to answer water boarding questions; so I won’t”
Murky is using the “Reverse Hypothetical” Dodge on Waterboarding - “Waterboarding is not Currently used by the CIA today, and I feel it would be inappropriate for me to comment on its possible past use.”
Do refresh occasionally. Marcy is adding her inimitable commentary along with trying to document the atrocities.
Mukasey’s honeymoon was short, predicably so.
He’s a better coverup guy than Gonzalez, and he doesn’t have the baggage of past admissions/lies that was dogging General Gonzalez.
I have been authorized to say waterboarding is not among techniques currently used.
Parsometer - check your clock. “Currently” means “at this moment.”
Mukasey - “Not gonna speculate, without having done the research, on a question I was asked to research several months ago”.
(note to EW - I tend to paraphrase…)
Leahy: Is waterboarding an American citizen in other parts of the world illegal?
M: Blah Blah Blah
Leahy - Aw come on answer the questions
M: If I address this difficult question, people who hate us will know….
Leahy: Yeah, K, answer the question. Your failure to answer will put some of our people in more harm
M. Nuh Uh; the military is entitled to Geneva Conventions, What I say has no bearing
Bush nominated him. What did anyone, could anyone expect? I knew this the first time his name was uttered by DimBulb. Nothing here will surprise me today. It’s “nice” of Leahy to ASK, tho.
*sigh*
Leahy talking about the telecoms cutting off wiretapping because we didn’t pay the bill! BWA HA HA
Leahy, if so important, why not pay the bills?
Leahy wants to know what we paid the telecoms for wiretapping. Mukasey says he doesn’t know and is not sure if the info is calssified. Leahy is smirking. I love me some Leahy.
He’ll look at a lot of stuff. Then what. He can say he looked at it. period. That doesn’t mean he intends to do anything about what he looked at.
Sheesh.
Mucousy is Gonzales with a pedigree. Another stonewalling war criminal that should be thrown in the dock for future trial.
Mr. Magoo indeed. He’s willfully blind.
-G
Leahy: What’s up with Ashcroft getting the no-bid contract?
Muckus: If I give you an answer to that it will be an answer and therefor I cannot answer. Makes sense to me but then I am only 1 year old.
What does he mean “torture is now unlawful under American law”?
NO MAKE HIM ANSWER!
“Mukasey: Our military won’t be affected by what I say.”
Excuse me? When one of us speaks up, it’s treason. It’s betraying the troops. It’s supporting the enemy. And when the Attorney General of the United States speaks, it has no effect?
public service announcement:
Orrin Hatch is present. Should you become ill, there should be a bag located in the back of the seat in front of you. If you find no such bag, please examine your remote control now and locate the “Mute” button.
Thank you for flying Air Disingenuous.
Specter is hot on the trail of Bush’s lawbreaking justified with Article II powers. Mukasey clams up, makes inadequate arguments, Specter backs off.
Mukasey thinks he’s Bush’s personal lawyer.
Yup. It doesn’t include “earlier this morning” or “later this afternoon”.
Arlen: Does the President have the Article II power to engage in Torture?
M: Torture is Not Lawful under American Law. I can’t imagine a circumstance where the President would want to do that.
(Mukasey looks very sheepish this morning - he knows he Lying for BushCo.)b
Snarlin’ Arlen! He seems to be pissed.
Of course that does not always lead him to act.
Shorter Mukasey: “Sometimes bank robbery is illegal and sometimes it is not.”
Depends wether done with a gun or a pen
He’s faking it, He’s good at that.
Protect those corporations Mukasey!!!!!
Protect that corrupt p*ick Dick!!!!
It wasn’t against the law when bush did it illegally. I guess
corporate usurpation of constitutional principles!!!
“M: Torture is Not Lawful under American Law. I can’t imagine a circumstance where the President would want to do that.”
Okay, Michael, here you go: There’s a ticking nuclear bomb set to go off in New York City in 20 minutes. You have a man in custody who says he knows where it is, but he won’t tell you. And Jesus Christ is standing there with a handgun and a puppy, and he says he’s going to shoot Fluffy if you don’t torture the man. And Dick Cheney is on the phone saying, “Just torture the fucker. I’m not interrupting the President’s bike ride over some liberal mecca!”
Is is okay to torture the guy?
That was the most amazing answer. The U.S. military are entitled to be treated according to the conventions because they behave well and honorably. Other people don’t, so they don’t qualify. Ok: he didn’t quite say that, but that was the clear implication.
Mukasey saying that the telecoms’ conduct “has already been found” to have been reasonable and in good faith.
I must have missed that finding somehow… Ow I’m wondering who made that “finding”.
Not really.
I happen to disagree with most progressives on this point
I believe in jury nulification, I believe in extenuating circumstanes and I believe I would have to try something to get this information and if I have to go to jail for it I would
sorry
Teddy- “I won’t even ask you because I know I won’t get a straight answer”
QOTD.
Did you guys see the article yesterday about Kucinich withdrawing his bill to impeach Bush? It was said, or alluded to in the article, that the SJC was going to actually open a full investigation of the yellow cake, Saddam’s having or seeking WMD, lied us into a war issue (which was the main premise of Kucinich’s impeachment bill is that Bush misAdministration lied us into a war). I WISH! And I too loves me some Leahy.
This thing testifying is an utter disgrace to the concept of law, and is given recognition by title of honor. The judicial system is a joke.
If Leahy is so flipping concerned about checks and balances, why did he roll over on the SJC FISA bill, in favor of the SIC bill. And where is the action on the subpeonas? Where does theater end, and some form–ANY FORM–of meaningful congressional action begin?
Ow I’m wondering who made that “finding”.
SSCI in their Senate Report.
Senate Report 110-209
Kennedy: Would Waterboarding be Torture if it was used on you?
M: I’d feel that way, but I can’t go into the Department’s policy for making these sorts of decisions, because there are many factors involved in such a decision.
if I have to go to jail for it I would
sorry
that’s the correct answer, imo.
Nuremberg is the only solution, the only thing that will save US.
One hundred per cent.
60 minutes FBI agent who interacted with Saddam……….
“no wmd” Guess this is just overlooked????????????
the real problem is we won’t know if we’ve been given the righ information or any informaiton
we might actually be causeing the problem since we are gonna have to act on the very first thing they say and that will almost definately be a lie
it is a terrible question to ask in the fist place
If not for the war crime trials of NAZIs the world never would have known of the Gliewitz Incident! Hitler’s fabricated justification for the invasion of Poland!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These people are criminals……………
These people are putrid!!!!!
Kennedy looks like his head will explode. He should suggest they waterboard the AG right there on camera.
DANG! i missed it. will try to find it online. i just saw that little article in a little newspaper from Dennis’s state.
Okay, but since it’s my hypothetical situation, let me run it: It turns out that the “terrorist” you’re holding is really just someone’s senile old grandfather. And Jesus’s gun was loaded with blanks. (He’s such a kidder!) Dick Cheney is still an asshole–even in a fantasy world, you just can spin that away.
So now you’ve got a senile old man with three missing fingers and half a dozen broken ribs. Were your actions justified? Do you feel any better about the situation because Dick Cheney told you it was okay?
Congressional oversight of executive abuse(s) is unconstitutional????
thanks, I think. Could you maybe help me out and direct me to that “finding” - appears to be a long document, and I *could* wade all the way through it, but if possible, rather than wading all the way through it, I’d kinda like to keep watching this hearing…
I don’t think there is much more to support the assertion, than that blockquote summary from the SSCI Committee report. The report recapitulates each of those points in slightly longer prose, but with no further information.
Pretty stunning admission of acting outside of the structure of FISA. No AG certification, but the president’s lawyer said it was okay.
no, they were not justified at all and of course you make a great point
it is indeed a terrible question
ESPECIALLY
since we know as a fact this administration jailed everyone and anyone they wanted to with nothing more then a suggestion from anyone at all
so your point is well taken indeed
Grassley seems pissed too. This is getting fun.
Wow. Even Grassley is pissd.
Here’s another important conclusion from the SSCI report. I know the full report is pretty long, but sometimes one has to wade in, in order to be informed. I’m cherry picking what suits my fancy, and that tends to create a biased impression.
Even Grassley is pissd.
Without action, or reaction by Congress, it’s all just real life drama. Reality teevee, with none of the consequences.
checks and balances eviscerated by a “corporate aristocracy” seeking to undermine law to avoid accountability and maintain “cash cows!!!!”
Our founding fathers must be going bleeping nuts right now!!!!
Grassley The old guard!!!!
that’s not good enough though
they have lawyers, the lawyers know there is no warrant, they know the law concerning warrants
there is no good faith demonstrated there is depravity demonstrated, it’s very simple for the telecom to simply say;
“show me the warrant”
no probable cause that his administration is “criminal” thought!!!
“We don’t got no stinckin’ warrants gringo”
Will Leahy ask Mukasey about Leahy’s request to get Junya’s and Deadeye’s non-grand jury testimony given to Patrick Fitzgerald?
Will Mukasey remember ever receiving the letter?
Will he remember to give an answer?
Go Biden!!!! Shocks the Conscience’ related to means, not ends. “Unique you said that! Shocks my conscience! i remember cicero, too”
YESSSSSSS!
Biden: skewering him on a teryaki stick!!!
I sure hope a Democratic Congress is able to ensure the Mukasey is unable to return to any lifetime judgeship. If he’s not ready to retire, he needs to depend on Federalist Society or other right wing welfare group.
here it is in a nut shell;
the president claims that by his very request he is above the law and anyone that acts on his request is above the law
that is what the claim is stating
are we to agree with this assessment or call them out on it and say NO FRIGGIN WAY!
first - thanks, cboldt, for the relevant excerpts.
and perris is obviously correct, and I doubt that there would be any serious argument, that a determination that conduct is, or is not reasonable, is not for the Legislative branch to make…
they have lawyers, the lawyers know there is no warrant, they know the law concerning warrants
It’s worse than that even. They get AG-signed letters, those being outside of statutory law as to adequate representation, but AG-signed per the statute, at least. Then along comes a letter with NO AG signature, but WH counsel signature? You better believe they knew they were on thin ice — just the same, I appreciate that they may have been willing to break the law, since as a practical matter, there isn’t much choice. The companies would be branded unpatriotic, etc. These orders are coming from the very top, not from some dipwad in a local FBI office.
But agreed, good-faith believe in law abiding? No way Jose. They figured the top dog would take the heat and/or get them out of the dock, if the truth started to leak out. And money is no object, when you are in fact a state-owned and operated enterprise, for all intents and purposes.
yes sir…………………………….
I know I’m being a total wiseass here, but my point is that we can all imagine bizarre situations in which we would break the law. The founders imagined it, too. That one of the reasons we have pardons. And as we’ve recently seen, Congress can even consider retroactively immunizing people for breaking laws if it feels that national security needs were more important at the time.
That isn’t the issue here. This issue is simply this: Is it legal to torture people? The answer is currently “No”, and in addition to US law, we have treaties to honor that say the same thing. We are breaking our own laws as well as our international treaties.
Biden is a moron.
you guys broke it” !!!!!! Biden rocks
I doubt that there would be any serious argument, that a determination that conduct is, or is not reasonable, is not for the Legislative branch to make…
Well, Bond, Rockefeller and a host of others are saying exactly that, and they are very serious in their position.
I think they are dead wrong, but who the hell am I?
A five minute time limit to question these slippery, well oiled eels is just wrong.
My new favorite widdle senatuh is tawkin now.
condolences!
Sneezy up. Another apologist for Bush Criminal Enterprises.
I think they are dead wrong, but who the hell am I?
I hereby proclaim you to be a “reasonable” person. heh.
Bush, a “corporate aristocrat” is attempting to re-introduce, the “divine right of kings,” thought to be negated by Cromwell!!!
Speaking as a Scot, that’s an insult to Haggis.
BINGO
the very notion is reclaiming “the divine right of kings”, there it is front and center
Well, it only took 7 years for the US to reduce our standards of acceptable conduct to not raping and not chopping off peoples’ heads.
America has become the poster child for low expectations.
-G
Sessions wants money sent to guarding the SW border, not naturalizing new citizens so they can vote (re Kennedy)
Sessions, from Alabama, is squawking about illegal immigration. Big problem in Alabama is it?
… in fact a state-owned and operated enterprise, for all intents and purposes. …
Basically an industry that is operationally regulated as to “protecting” customer privacy while possessing a degree of snooping capability dictated and exercised solely by the government, financed in significant part by tax money (CALEA compliant hardware, payment for employees undertaking snoop activity); with a patina of corporate and shareholder activity layered on top, financed by fees paid by subscribers.
It matters not the company name on the door, the operation/snooping protocol is outside of the control of all of ‘em. From a privacy operations point, they are “state owned.”
Leahy reads into the record letters form military stellars saying waterboarding is torture
Think I’ll need a big dose of Tom Lehrer after this thing is over.
Seems like that was Nixon’s MO, but seems to be working out a little better for Dubya.
I know I’m not the only one getting tired of these blowhard Senators. WTF are they gonna DO about their anger? Vent and then sigh of relief? Useless bunch of assholes, the whole lot of ‘em.
Yes… lots of those this morning.
What does it take for someone to say he’s just not believable.
Other issue is who did the torturing? Larry Johnson over at No Quarter has stated that he is “almost” sure that those who did the torturing were not CIA. So who did the torturing? And who were the CIA lawyers who gave the big o.k. for these “enhanced” techniques to be used.
Just who is Mukasey protecting?
Abu Ghraib was not torture
Relies on the legal/clinical definition.
kennedy was real good, and I think if he thought of it he would have asked;
“if we waterboarded you until you said waterboarding was torture, how long do you think it would take you to say it and would that testimony from you be of any value at all?”
let him try to answer that
So who did the torturing?
Almost certainly, contract employees who are in a legal no man’s land, see for example Blackwater operating in Iraq. Out of reach of all known legal remedial possibilities by dint of jurisdictional gaps
? the Syrians ?
it was “team b” set up by dick, he has done it before, when he doesn’t get the answers he wants he creates his own “cia b” which is not the cia at all
great stuff perris, keep it up.
“if we waterboarded you until you said waterboarding was torture, how long do you think it would take you to say it and would that testimony from you be of any value at all?”