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	<title>Comments on: Did Eric Edelman Lie to the Plame Grand Jury?</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/</link>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-49142</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I saw in the Addington 2 live-blog that for any Document Requests/Subpoenas by the Government, Bush, Cheney and Libby would sweep through their files first for ‘privileged’ communications, and pick them out before Addington either saw them, or responded with a Production. Bush and Cheney would also ‘review’ a Document Production before Addington sent it to the Government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the Addington 1 live-blog, Addington describes to Fitz his July 8th meeting with Libby in the morning just before the Secret Mission to Judy:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“F Conversation about CIA paperwork&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A Asked if someone worked at CIA, would there be records. Normal for him to ask me bc he knew I worked at the CIA. Kind of paperwork would depend on whether you were on the Operations or Analytical side. On operational side, CIA officers are not just free to use whoever they want, need to get approval, requesting permission to use someone, would generate paperwork approval. On analytical side there’d be a letter of instruction or contract. In any case, this is the govt, when you spend money, there’s a money trail. I did tell him also it had been 20 years since I worked at the CIA.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Addington’s response on the records question contains an ‘implicit discriminator’ that is True beyond just issues of documentation - Operators - CPD - are Covert, while Analysts - WINPAC - are not Covert (unless they are ‘on-loan’ from Operations.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It certainly seems to me that Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable would have been a dead giveaway that she was on the Operational side of the House - and Operators are Covert. Frankly, in addition, her 2/12/02 Memo is written in the voice of an Operator Team Leader/Manager talking to the Operators on her Team, too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, Joe Wilson was sent on a Covert Mission to Niger, arranged according to the Usual Covert Protocols, by the Covert Operators in CPD, and debriefed just like a Covert Operator after his Mission.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After McLaughlin’s 6/11 meeting with Cheney to explain Joe Wilson’s Trip - “sent by the functional office,” and Grenier telling Libby later that afternoon that “Joe Wilson’s wife works in CP, the division that sent Joe” - How could Cheney and Libby Not have known Valerie was Covert - especially if Cheney had seen Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable (the only ’source fit’ for Cheney’s Talking Point #4 - “OVP, Defense and State expressed strong interest”)?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Up to now, I’ve been certain that Bush, Cheney and Libby knew Valerie’s CIA Employment was Classified before they leaked it, but skeptical that they ‘knew’ she was Covert.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, however, I strongly suspect that they Knew she was Covert, and outed her anyway, as part of their Plan to Blame the CIA for the Bad Intell Work that led to the Invasion.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw in the Addington 2 live-blog that for any Document Requests/Subpoenas by the Government, Bush, Cheney and Libby would sweep through their files first for ‘privileged’ communications, and pick them out before Addington either saw them, or responded with a Production. Bush and Cheney would also ‘review’ a Document Production before Addington sent it to the Government.</p>
<p>In the Addington 1 live-blog, Addington describes to Fitz his July 8th meeting with Libby in the morning just before the Secret Mission to Judy:</p>
<p>“F Conversation about CIA paperwork</p>
<p>A Asked if someone worked at CIA, would there be records. Normal for him to ask me bc he knew I worked at the CIA. Kind of paperwork would depend on whether you were on the Operations or Analytical side. On operational side, CIA officers are not just free to use whoever they want, need to get approval, requesting permission to use someone, would generate paperwork approval. On analytical side there’d be a letter of instruction or contract. In any case, this is the govt, when you spend money, there’s a money trail. I did tell him also it had been 20 years since I worked at the CIA.”</p>
<p>—</p>
<p>Addington’s response on the records question contains an ‘implicit discriminator’ that is True beyond just issues of documentation &#8211; Operators &#8211; CPD &#8211; are Covert, while Analysts &#8211; WINPAC &#8211; are not Covert (unless they are ‘on-loan’ from Operations.)</p>
<p>It certainly seems to me that Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable would have been a dead giveaway that she was on the Operational side of the House &#8211; and Operators are Covert. Frankly, in addition, her 2/12/02 Memo is written in the voice of an Operator Team Leader/Manager talking to the Operators on her Team, too.</p>
<p>So, Joe Wilson was sent on a Covert Mission to Niger, arranged according to the Usual Covert Protocols, by the Covert Operators in CPD, and debriefed just like a Covert Operator after his Mission.</p>
<p>After McLaughlin’s 6/11 meeting with Cheney to explain Joe Wilson’s Trip &#8211; “sent by the functional office,” and Grenier telling Libby later that afternoon that “Joe Wilson’s wife works in CP, the division that sent Joe” &#8211; How could Cheney and Libby Not have known Valerie was Covert &#8211; especially if Cheney had seen Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable (the only ’source fit’ for Cheney’s Talking Point #4 &#8211; “OVP, Defense and State expressed strong interest”)?</p>
<p>Up to now, I’ve been certain that Bush, Cheney and Libby knew Valerie’s CIA Employment was Classified before they leaked it, but skeptical that they ‘knew’ she was Covert.</p>
<p>Now, however, I strongly suspect that they Knew she was Covert, and outed her anyway, as part of their Plan to Blame the CIA for the Bad Intell Work that led to the Invasion.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-49020</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;RFW&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think it’s simpler than that. The documents which Edelman claims he may have seen but which I think Cheney saw–my understanding is they made it clear that Valerie’s identity was protected.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RFW</p>
<p>I think it’s simpler than that. The documents which Edelman claims he may have seen but which I think Cheney saw–my understanding is they made it clear that Valerie’s identity was protected.</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-49015</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/#comment-49015</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EW - Another great article! Edelman is a Total Kool-Aid Drinker - he’d have no problem being a Cheney-martyr, just like Libby. Also, I agree that the only ’source-fit’ for talking point number 4 in the 6/12 CPD Note is Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable/E-mail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In addition, It seems clear that both the 2/13/02 Cable/E-mail and the 6/12 CPD Note make it plain that Valerie Wilson and “his wife,” respectively, work in the Counterproliferation Division.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When a guy like Libby, who had all the Security Clearances, hears that someone, anyone, is in CPD, he would have assumed Classified CIA Employment - in the same way that if you were an academic and someone gave a paper at a Symposium on Quantum Physics, you would assume that that speaker was a PhD. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Libby ‘could’ have known that she was Covert, allthough he denied it, but by 6/12 he and Cheney almost certainly ‘knew’ her CIA Employment was Classified by virtue of knowing Valerie worked in the Counterproliferation Division - which meant “complications at the CIA” with public disclosure, as Edelman would come to hear it from Libby on 6/19.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It looks like those ‘complications’ were overcome about three weeks later…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EW &#8211; Another great article! Edelman is a Total Kool-Aid Drinker &#8211; he’d have no problem being a Cheney-martyr, just like Libby. Also, I agree that the only ’source-fit’ for talking point number 4 in the 6/12 CPD Note is Valerie’s 2/13/02 Cable/E-mail.</p>
<p>In addition, It seems clear that both the 2/13/02 Cable/E-mail and the 6/12 CPD Note make it plain that Valerie Wilson and “his wife,” respectively, work in the Counterproliferation Division.</p>
<p>When a guy like Libby, who had all the Security Clearances, hears that someone, anyone, is in CPD, he would have assumed Classified CIA Employment &#8211; in the same way that if you were an academic and someone gave a paper at a Symposium on Quantum Physics, you would assume that that speaker was a PhD. </p>
<p>Libby ‘could’ have known that she was Covert, allthough he denied it, but by 6/12 he and Cheney almost certainly ‘knew’ her CIA Employment was Classified by virtue of knowing Valerie worked in the Counterproliferation Division &#8211; which meant “complications at the CIA” with public disclosure, as Edelman would come to hear it from Libby on 6/19.</p>
<p>It looks like those ‘complications’ were overcome about three weeks later…</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48981</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think ew’s is a worthwhile review here, as are those creel and waders expeditions at Prettyman, especially in light of the ellucidations which become incrementally more understandable as other matters surface.  I recall the photocopied note as likely Mayfield’s rendering of Libby’s notes of a meeting between Cheney and Libby, but, the topic of the post, as always, goes beyond to the various teleologies.  Perhaps I am mired in the ancient history of the morphing of MZM in summer 2002 from a EOVP IT contractor to a pentagon contractor that autumn, and am waiting for some funny headers to surface in emails, though surely TheCompany keeps their own IT in sophisticated control.  A ‘cable’ could be a missive in the legacy Notes platform in 2002 and afterward for as long as stalwarts opted to preserve their trusty backoffice Notes messaging architecture as Exchange’s deployment progressed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think ew’s is a worthwhile review here, as are those creel and waders expeditions at Prettyman, especially in light of the ellucidations which become incrementally more understandable as other matters surface.  I recall the photocopied note as likely Mayfield’s rendering of Libby’s notes of a meeting between Cheney and Libby, but, the topic of the post, as always, goes beyond to the various teleologies.  Perhaps I am mired in the ancient history of the morphing of MZM in summer 2002 from a EOVP IT contractor to a pentagon contractor that autumn, and am waiting for some funny headers to surface in emails, though surely TheCompany keeps their own IT in sophisticated control.  A ‘cable’ could be a missive in the legacy Notes platform in 2002 and afterward for as long as stalwarts opted to preserve their trusty backoffice Notes messaging architecture as Exchange’s deployment progressed.</p>
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		<title>By: jakebob</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48947</link>
		<dc:creator>jakebob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;In re: losing on purpose in Afghanistan.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When you consider that US could BUY the entire Afghan opium crop for about $4 billion annually and deprive Taliban of an income source… WTF????&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, wait… then we’d be depriving our poor starving arms manufacturers of a percent of their livelihood. Nevermind.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In re: losing on purpose in Afghanistan.</p>
<p>When you consider that US could BUY the entire Afghan opium crop for about $4 billion annually and deprive Taliban of an income source… WTF????</p>
<p>Oh, wait… then we’d be depriving our poor starving arms manufacturers of a percent of their livelihood. Nevermind.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48917</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Remember when Senators Biden, Dodd, Kerry etc were demanding that Bolton and the Bush crew hand over the NSA intercepts that many believe have to do with Bolton(Cheney) spying on Colin Powell’s negotiations with Iran?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember when Senators Biden, Dodd, Kerry etc were demanding that Bolton and the Bush crew hand over the NSA intercepts that many believe have to do with Bolton(Cheney) spying on Colin Powell’s negotiations with Iran?</p>
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		<title>By: TheConfidenceMan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48911</link>
		<dc:creator>TheConfidenceMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Absolutely, OfTeaLeaves — that was my first reaction to “Cheney was the one who saw them, by some illicit means” as well: that Cheney was using the telcos to sniff through CIA and other governmental voice/data traffic.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Remember, the Nixon team’s most comprehensive snooping operations were conducted not on civilians, but on fellow administrative operators.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, OfTeaLeaves — that was my first reaction to “Cheney was the one who saw them, by some illicit means” as well: that Cheney was using the telcos to sniff through CIA and other governmental voice/data traffic.</p>
<p>Remember, the Nixon team’s most comprehensive snooping operations were conducted not on civilians, but on fellow administrative operators.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48804</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;And Perle&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Perle</p>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48790</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;and Grossman.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and Grossman.</p>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/did-eric-edelman-lie-to-the-grand-jury/comment-page-1/#comment-48789</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;One thing that we now know that the Administration was doing illegally at that time was eavesdropping and gathering information, including emails, which could explain why Cheney would have needed another method to reveal the information without revealing the program.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, it seems pretty clear that if Sibel Edmonds’ story is correct that Edelman would have known who Plame was and what she was doing with Brewster Jennings….and that Plame was a threat to their nuclear proliferation operations in Turkey and that stopping Brewster Jennings and Plame was the motive to go after her…and that the attack on Joe Wilson was really the red herring in the whole story.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The characters that keep coming up are Edelman and Feith….in both stories.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that we now know that the Administration was doing illegally at that time was eavesdropping and gathering information, including emails, which could explain why Cheney would have needed another method to reveal the information without revealing the program.</p>
<p>Also, it seems pretty clear that if Sibel Edmonds’ story is correct that Edelman would have known who Plame was and what she was doing with Brewster Jennings….and that Plame was a threat to their nuclear proliferation operations in Turkey and that stopping Brewster Jennings and Plame was the motive to go after her…and that the attack on Joe Wilson was really the red herring in the whole story.  </p>
<p>The characters that keep coming up are Edelman and Feith….in both stories.</p>
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