<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Hillary, YOU Don&#8217;t Get to Decide to Seat Our Delegates</title>
	<atom:link href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:09:46 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: dsalexan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-48005</link>
		<dc:creator>dsalexan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-48005</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In re your statement, “But particularly for MI, where the rules AND the vote have already been set, Hillary’s grandstanding comes off as really cynical.” I got my first taste of what I’d hoped was not going to be triangulation when noting that unlike Edwards and Obama, Clinton chose to leave her name on the ballot. I was not pleased that Hillary was willing  to eschew the high road taken by Edwards and Obamain but in those days I was willing to suspend my disbelief and was still a nominal supporter.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As all of us here well know, her only opponents in MI were Gravel, Kucinich, Dodd and uncommitted. But counting on a less-well-informed public [and interviewers on MSNBC who hear BS with equinamity] I was horrified to note that Hilary herself [McClatchey interview] as well as supporters such as Nita Lowey [Jan 21 on MSNBC interview] are touting her “win” in Michigan. Now I realize she was just exploiting the situation from the beginning. YUCK.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In re your statement, “But particularly for MI, where the rules AND the vote have already been set, Hillary’s grandstanding comes off as really cynical.” I got my first taste of what I’d hoped was not going to be triangulation when noting that unlike Edwards and Obama, Clinton chose to leave her name on the ballot. I was not pleased that Hillary was willing  to eschew the high road taken by Edwards and Obamain but in those days I was willing to suspend my disbelief and was still a nominal supporter.</p>
<p>As all of us here well know, her only opponents in MI were Gravel, Kucinich, Dodd and uncommitted. But counting on a less-well-informed public [and interviewers on MSNBC who hear BS with equinamity] I was horrified to note that Hilary herself [McClatchey interview] as well as supporters such as Nita Lowey [Jan 21 on MSNBC interview] are touting her “win” in Michigan. Now I realize she was just exploiting the situation from the beginning. YUCK.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47799</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47799</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m actually in your neighborhood on Monday–though at an event on the Hill when Obama speaks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m actually in your neighborhood on Monday–though at an event on the Hill when Obama speaks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47781</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47781</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, the rules….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So far, it is the DNC Credentials Commission (a sub set of the DNC) that has made the ruling regarding Florida and Michigan.  Outside the window, the Convention will not seat the delegates.  But this can be appealed.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After delegations from each state and territory are set, each delegation will appoint two members, one male, one female, to the Convention Committees such as rules, Platform and Credentials.  You can be sure that who ever controls the delegation numerically in each state will appoint committee members favorable to their candidate.  The appeal of a credentials ruling by the DNC Commission would go to the  Credentials Committee of the Convention.  There are about 110 members of these committees (Americans Abroad, Guam, Virgin Islands, etc., all get one member).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary must anticipate that she will control (hold the majority) in at least 50% of these delegations — and she may, we certainly don’t know yet.  At any rate, the Credentials Committee will issue a ruling, but if there is a viable minority (I think it is about 25% of the committee members) it can be further appealed to the floor.  In which case, floor fight will transpire.  The decision of the convention is final.  Remember, in calculating who controls a delegation, you have to add in the Super Delegates, many of whom are not yet selected, (The State Legislators, city and county elected officials selected as Superdelegates) and many others are not yet declared.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Depending on how things come out Feb 5, it could well be a floor vote on the credentials matter could tell us how the nomination will come out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the rules….</p>
<p>So far, it is the DNC Credentials Commission (a sub set of the DNC) that has made the ruling regarding Florida and Michigan.  Outside the window, the Convention will not seat the delegates.  But this can be appealed.  </p>
<p>After delegations from each state and territory are set, each delegation will appoint two members, one male, one female, to the Convention Committees such as rules, Platform and Credentials.  You can be sure that who ever controls the delegation numerically in each state will appoint committee members favorable to their candidate.  The appeal of a credentials ruling by the DNC Commission would go to the  Credentials Committee of the Convention.  There are about 110 members of these committees (Americans Abroad, Guam, Virgin Islands, etc., all get one member).  </p>
<p>Hillary must anticipate that she will control (hold the majority) in at least 50% of these delegations — and she may, we certainly don’t know yet.  At any rate, the Credentials Committee will issue a ruling, but if there is a viable minority (I think it is about 25% of the committee members) it can be further appealed to the floor.  In which case, floor fight will transpire.  The decision of the convention is final.  Remember, in calculating who controls a delegation, you have to add in the Super Delegates, many of whom are not yet selected, (The State Legislators, city and county elected officials selected as Superdelegates) and many others are not yet declared.  </p>
<p>Depending on how things come out Feb 5, it could well be a floor vote on the credentials matter could tell us how the nomination will come out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Middento</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47779</link>
		<dc:creator>Middento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47779</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m reading this several days late (natch) but this may be the final chunk to push me against Hillary for sure for our primary. (Since we’re just after Mega-Tuesday here in Maryland, it may not matter. Still…)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In other news, you might be amused, M, that Obama just happens to be speaking downstairs from my office on Monday… at the same time I’ll be going through election judge training so that we can avoid what happened around here in the primaries two years ago, heh heh (although apparently we’ll be going back to paper/optical-scan ballots in 2010).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m reading this several days late (natch) but this may be the final chunk to push me against Hillary for sure for our primary. (Since we’re just after Mega-Tuesday here in Maryland, it may not matter. Still…)</p>
<p>In other news, you might be amused, M, that Obama just happens to be speaking downstairs from my office on Monday… at the same time I’ll be going through election judge training so that we can avoid what happened around here in the primaries two years ago, heh heh (although apparently we’ll be going back to paper/optical-scan ballots in 2010).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47725</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47725</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If only Karl Rove hadn’t stuffed the Delaware Plan in 2000, neither the Dems nor the Reps would be in this mess.  (Yes, the RNC punished its crazed it’s-all-about-MEEEEE gun-jumpers, too, though you don’t hear much about that in the media.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only Karl Rove hadn’t stuffed the Delaware Plan in 2000, neither the Dems nor the Reps would be in this mess.  (Yes, the RNC punished its crazed it’s-all-about-MEEEEE gun-jumpers, too, though you don’t hear much about that in the media.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47693</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47693</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with most all of what you say.  These politicians are - gasp! - being politicians.  I have really come to believe that the real problem is the press.  They have always covered horserace politics in presidential elections, but the shameless and constant riot inducing manner they are now doing it is beyond belief.  They are not doing this because this shit is real or matters one lick; they are doing it because news is now a profit center, not a public service, and the more they get the electorate whipped into these asinine arguments, the more ratings they get.  Nothing more than another dead blonde girl.  Other than when our country was founded, and perhaps WWII, I am not sure if there has been another time in our history when our country was on such a precarious precipice.  Yet instead of focusing on the issues we are arguing over this crap.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most all of what you say.  These politicians are &#8211; gasp! &#8211; being politicians.  I have really come to believe that the real problem is the press.  They have always covered horserace politics in presidential elections, but the shameless and constant riot inducing manner they are now doing it is beyond belief.  They are not doing this because this shit is real or matters one lick; they are doing it because news is now a profit center, not a public service, and the more they get the electorate whipped into these asinine arguments, the more ratings they get.  Nothing more than another dead blonde girl.  Other than when our country was founded, and perhaps WWII, I am not sure if there has been another time in our history when our country was on such a precarious precipice.  Yet instead of focusing on the issues we are arguing over this crap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dude</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47690</link>
		<dc:creator>dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s funny how only a month ago the vast majority of folks were saying Hillary runs a Presidential-style campaign, is so expert and professional–Hillary’s Ninjas were supposed to be a mark of her prowess and her acumen. So today she’s a ambitious dope for playing hardball in only the way her Ninja Advisors know how.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama seems to swing from offense to defense, roll with the punches sort of like the seaweed rolls with the tide. He is listless. Then, he abruptly lashes out with a good zinger. Then he complains about having to campaign against two Clintons. And then he tag-teams with his wife in family self-defense. And somehow this is perceived alternately as clever and desperate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama fooled around with the rules and technicalities. Hillary fooled around with the rules and technicalities. And the Superdelegates are laughing and meeting in their own backrooms to deal with who gets the biggest chunk of delegates in the real world barring some tidal wave change of election dynamics.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards is right.  The system is rigged from top to bottom. It IS broken and this H&amp;O crap is living proof.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am sticking with Edwards. All. The. Way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s funny how only a month ago the vast majority of folks were saying Hillary runs a Presidential-style campaign, is so expert and professional–Hillary’s Ninjas were supposed to be a mark of her prowess and her acumen. So today she’s a ambitious dope for playing hardball in only the way her Ninja Advisors know how.</p>
<p>Obama seems to swing from offense to defense, roll with the punches sort of like the seaweed rolls with the tide. He is listless. Then, he abruptly lashes out with a good zinger. Then he complains about having to campaign against two Clintons. And then he tag-teams with his wife in family self-defense. And somehow this is perceived alternately as clever and desperate.</p>
<p>Obama fooled around with the rules and technicalities. Hillary fooled around with the rules and technicalities. And the Superdelegates are laughing and meeting in their own backrooms to deal with who gets the biggest chunk of delegates in the real world barring some tidal wave change of election dynamics.</p>
<p>Edwards is right.  The system is rigged from top to bottom. It IS broken and this H&amp;O crap is living proof.</p>
<p>I am sticking with Edwards. All. The. Way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47689</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47689</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;With all due respect; this is a complete pile of manure.  I, in the worst way, do NOT want the general election to devolve into a Rove/swiftboat type of angry battle.  But, if that is what occurs, the Clintons are the best equipped and most adept at defending against it and taking it to the other side.  If you are worried about being “outmanuevered by dirtier political players” as you allege, then you better pray that Bill and Hillary Clinton are on your team.  But that doesn’t appear to be your real agenda, ranting against the Clintons for the sheer sake of doing it seems to be the agenda.  I am not a big fan of Hillary’s candidacy, but I find myself constantly defending the Clintons in the face of the absolutely insane and unfocused vitriol being spewed by people that just don’t like them.  I have no problem, even understand to a large extent, the emotional opinions of people to the Clintons; I share many of them.  But the way you have manifested it is factually unsupportable by what has occurred to date, is muddled and wrongheaded and is counter-productive.  You talk about the trashiness of the Clintons, but here you are spewing false vitriol at them instead of saying something positive about what you think is better.   You are what you complain of; take a look in the mirror.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect; this is a complete pile of manure.  I, in the worst way, do NOT want the general election to devolve into a Rove/swiftboat type of angry battle.  But, if that is what occurs, the Clintons are the best equipped and most adept at defending against it and taking it to the other side.  If you are worried about being “outmanuevered by dirtier political players” as you allege, then you better pray that Bill and Hillary Clinton are on your team.  But that doesn’t appear to be your real agenda, ranting against the Clintons for the sheer sake of doing it seems to be the agenda.  I am not a big fan of Hillary’s candidacy, but I find myself constantly defending the Clintons in the face of the absolutely insane and unfocused vitriol being spewed by people that just don’t like them.  I have no problem, even understand to a large extent, the emotional opinions of people to the Clintons; I share many of them.  But the way you have manifested it is factually unsupportable by what has occurred to date, is muddled and wrongheaded and is counter-productive.  You talk about the trashiness of the Clintons, but here you are spewing false vitriol at them instead of saying something positive about what you think is better.   You are what you complain of; take a look in the mirror.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47678</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47678</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I take it you don’t mind not being invited to any of Debbie Dingell’s parties any longer.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s okay, I suspect I won’t get as warm a welcome from Granholm next time I see her.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take it you don’t mind not being invited to any of Debbie Dingell’s parties any longer.</p>
</p>
<p>That’s okay, I suspect I won’t get as warm a welcome from Granholm next time I see her.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: joejoejoe</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/comment-page-1/#comment-47675</link>
		<dc:creator>joejoejoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/hillary-you-dont-get-to-decide-to-seat-our-delegates/#comment-47675</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You make good points. Thanks for your calm and thoughtful responses to my rants.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m just angry that I don’t get to see any of the candidates make campaign appearances in the state and now all of a sudden one of the candidates is saying we’ve had a fair and equal process in Florida so go ahead and seat the delegates. Floridians haven’t even seen the candidates in person at all. How is that a fair process?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are 5 FL congressional members (Sen. Nelson, Reps. Hastings, Wasserman-Schultz, Meek, &amp; C. Brown) who are &lt;a href=&quot;http://thehill.com/endorsements-2008.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;backing Hillary Clinton&lt;/a&gt; and they have been some of the loudest voices in favor of the changed date and against the DNC after the FL legislature voted. Does that mean anything? I don’t know much about Karen Thurman other than what I read in the press and in emails from the FL Democratic Party but she, Sen. Nelson, and (former judge) Rep. Hastings seem not to have a clue about the well established legal precedent that national parties make their own rules as well as the recent example of &lt;a href=&quot;http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/commission/20050531_comparison.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Delaware in ‘96 and ‘00&lt;/a&gt; holding a beauty contest primary and then awarding delegates by caucus later in the process. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for the Florida Legislature - maybe it’s too much to expect them to have any sense of the national politics but the 118-0 vote in the House sure doesn’t help the case of the Florida Democratic Party who claim to be victims of the GOP agenda to the DNC.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make good points. Thanks for your calm and thoughtful responses to my rants.</p>
<p>I’m just angry that I don’t get to see any of the candidates make campaign appearances in the state and now all of a sudden one of the candidates is saying we’ve had a fair and equal process in Florida so go ahead and seat the delegates. Floridians haven’t even seen the candidates in person at all. How is that a fair process?</p>
<p>There are 5 FL congressional members (Sen. Nelson, Reps. Hastings, Wasserman-Schultz, Meek, &amp; C. Brown) who are <a href="http://thehill.com/endorsements-2008.html" rel="nofollow">backing Hillary Clinton</a> and they have been some of the loudest voices in favor of the changed date and against the DNC after the FL legislature voted. Does that mean anything? I don’t know much about Karen Thurman other than what I read in the press and in emails from the FL Democratic Party but she, Sen. Nelson, and (former judge) Rep. Hastings seem not to have a clue about the well established legal precedent that national parties make their own rules as well as the recent example of <a href="http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/commission/20050531_comparison.pdf" rel="nofollow">Delaware in ‘96 and ‘00</a> holding a beauty contest primary and then awarding delegates by caucus later in the process. </p>
<p>As for the Florida Legislature &#8211; maybe it’s too much to expect them to have any sense of the national politics but the 118-0 vote in the House sure doesn’t help the case of the Florida Democratic Party who claim to be victims of the GOP agenda to the DNC.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
