Comments on: Dick Wants His Immunity, and He Wants It Now

By: bmaz

bmaz — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:16:43 +0000

Oh, sorry about that then. With regard to your question, no I don’t believe it directly affects that. It does not particularly help either; because, again, it creates a presumption of propriety in the various actions. But as to a direct evidentiary effect on the type of cases you describe, no; as long as inquiries into the same are permitted, and actually made, the normal legal and congressional evidentiary rules would still maintain.

By: klynn

klynn — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:03:04 +0000

I understood the aspect irt the surveillance, 4th Amend- game over aspect. My question that LHP responded on was that it appeared in the language of FISA (section regarding video, teleconferencing, teleconferencing surveillance, email, blackberries…) that if telecom immunity passes it will also hinder/deny discovery regarding the destroyed video tapes and missing emails and all the other Bush/Cheney controversies/illegalities?

Sorry to sound all tin foil. But in reading FISA the language read “larger” than just surveillance of possible terrorists. It would not be the first time this administration used legislation or judicial decisions to back up the unitary executive…

By: TheraP

TheraP — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:34:48 +0000

I’m having the very same problems, rOTL. We may need to form a support group. If you figure out how to “get over it,” please let me know.

Meanwhile, I’m deep into Rule of Law, Constitution, right to have your vote counted type of thinking.

Somehow I missed it when everybody else had the “brain chip change.”

Idiocy is me. Too.

By: bmaz

bmaz — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:29:02 +0000

By: bmaz

bmaz — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:28:32 +0000

In a nutshell, if immunity is passed, there will be no cases against Bush and Cheney. At least not over the surveillance issues, and that is exactly the point of the desire for immunity. By granting immunity for the surveillance action, the only viable avenues for discovery into what this administration has done, i.e. the civil suits pending and that might still be filed, is lost. It is crystal clear that Congress will take no action. Without the details and facts, there is no basis to ever have a case against Bush or Cheney. Tack onto that the fact that an award of immunity lends the presumption of acceptable and necessary action in surveillance in the name of the country. Basically, the award of immunity ratifies and authorizes the acts and gives them the legislative stamp of approval. Game over on the snooping and the precedent will be set for the future. It will take no longer than the return of the next iteration of the Federalist set in power in Washington for these newly authorized national security powers to start being adopted into every day life traditional law enforcement and criminal law. Again, game over; might as well go ahead and strike the fourth amendment, it will be so shallow and useless as to not even be there. This has been a slow slippery slope progression that has been underway underneath your noses for about three decades now.

By: BayStateLibrul

BayStateLibrul — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:24:20 +0000

Fastwork on the Wall Street Recovery Program…
Does this mean that the contempt charges are back on the table?
I wonder?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....mulus.html

By: masaccio

masaccio — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:57:15 +0000

We provide for the common defense by passing laws, and by following laws. One thing we defend ourselves from is our own government, which is the reason patriots are sickened by the law-breaking Bush administration.

By: klynn

klynn — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:39:14 +0000

Hey bmaz, I cannot remember if it was here (about a month ago) or over at FDL but I think I asked a question about FISA that got you and LHP discussing the fact that passing telecom immunity could in fact hinder or deny discovery in potential cases against Bush/Cheney…(I think it may have been a Christy post about the destroyed tapes)

In addition to the 4th Amend. Constitutional protection given with a “no telecom immunity” vote perhaps we can add in making sure we are not ending the balance of power for Congress to investigate high crimes and misdemeanors within the Executive Branch…An equally important aspect of the Constitution.

I think this speech was Cheney’s newest effort to protect his arse…Read this speech in the context of present information which has hit the fan in the past two weeks and it becomes more twisted…

By: BayStateLibrul

BayStateLibrul — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:27:47 +0000

Yes, and Pelosi/Reid should be traded for Barney Frank/Durbin.

By: 4jkb4ia

4jkb4ia — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:02:51 +0000

Greenwald’s post this morning about Jello Jay makes me righteously angry.