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	<title>Comments on: Henry&#8217;s Dates: Two Data Points from the Plame Investigation</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/</link>
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		<title>By: JodiDog</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-46063</link>
		<dc:creator>JodiDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-46063</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I beg your pardon on the improper address.  I didn’t know.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I beg your pardon on the improper address.  I didn’t know.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45950</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45950</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, no jurisdictional problems with other entities.  There process is more established than you think; even though rarely used.  There is a usually a daily per diem rate for the jails calculated out by each one; although very rarely ever billed for something like this.  Furthermore, since the district is entirely Federally funded, I just don’t see any problem there.  As to being afraid to use the power; fuck that, the fact that the Dems were too timid and afraid would NEVER stop the Goopers.  It is like impeachment, if it is the right thing to do, and the only way to protect the Constitution, you do it. End. Of. Story. (Heh heh, end of my story anyway…)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, no jurisdictional problems with other entities.  There process is more established than you think; even though rarely used.  There is a usually a daily per diem rate for the jails calculated out by each one; although very rarely ever billed for something like this.  Furthermore, since the district is entirely Federally funded, I just don’t see any problem there.  As to being afraid to use the power; fuck that, the fact that the Dems were too timid and afraid would NEVER stop the Goopers.  It is like impeachment, if it is the right thing to do, and the only way to protect the Constitution, you do it. End. Of. Story. (Heh heh, end of my story anyway…)</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45948</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45948</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;So, again, do not try and change the subject. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If anybody’s changing the subject, you are.  Do you have something to say about the missing emails or the methodology by which they should be obtained?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So, again, do not try and change the subject. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>If anybody’s changing the subject, you are.  Do you have something to say about the missing emails or the methodology by which they should be obtained?</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45947</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45947</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Alternatively, Congress can just contract out the detention to a DC district jail; no problem at all, all jails do this for other jurisdictions all the time.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wouldn’t that contracting require a vote by both houses, though?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And what keeps a local jurisdiction from intervening into any attempt to take persons into custody by the Sergeant-at-Arms?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Very messy, particularly without recent precedent.  I tend to think this is why it hasn’t happened; attempting this becomes precedent for the next time it is used, and doing so makes it easy for a Congress elected in a backlash against a Democratic majority Congress to misuse it.  I suspect that this weighs considerably on decision-making regarding subpoena enforcement.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Alternatively, Congress can just contract out the detention to a DC district jail; no problem at all, all jails do this for other jurisdictions all the time.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Wouldn’t that contracting require a vote by both houses, though?</p>
<p>And what keeps a local jurisdiction from intervening into any attempt to take persons into custody by the Sergeant-at-Arms?  </p>
<p>Very messy, particularly without recent precedent.  I tend to think this is why it hasn’t happened; attempting this becomes precedent for the next time it is used, and doing so makes it easy for a Congress elected in a backlash against a Democratic majority Congress to misuse it.  I suspect that this weighs considerably on decision-making regarding subpoena enforcement.</p>
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		<title>By: spy4hire</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45931</link>
		<dc:creator>spy4hire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45931</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You took a dig at Larry, Jeff, and you’ve done it many times before particularly on The Next Hurrah. You’ve been critical of what Larry says he knows about the leak. Do not attempt to divert attention away from your intended criticism of Larry. You said above “um….Leen, I know you’re a fan of Larry Johnson, which is fine…” That is how you began your screed. And that was intended as a dig at Larry. As I have said, Jeff, you have written comments critical of what Larry has said. Your knowledge of this case, Jeff, is based entirely on reading the media reports or talking to Murray, which I am still unsure how you can do that when he has his dick in your mouth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, again, do not try and change the subject. You intended to criticize Larry with your comment and that would not be the first time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And as for Mary McCarthy, I am sure you are aware that she signed a letter with Larry, and others like us in the intel community, opposing Mr. Mukasey’s confirmation. It’s a small community, Jeff, and we’re a tight knit group.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You took a dig at Larry, Jeff, and you’ve done it many times before particularly on The Next Hurrah. You’ve been critical of what Larry says he knows about the leak. Do not attempt to divert attention away from your intended criticism of Larry. You said above “um….Leen, I know you’re a fan of Larry Johnson, which is fine…” That is how you began your screed. And that was intended as a dig at Larry. As I have said, Jeff, you have written comments critical of what Larry has said. Your knowledge of this case, Jeff, is based entirely on reading the media reports or talking to Murray, which I am still unsure how you can do that when he has his dick in your mouth.</p>
<p>So, again, do not try and change the subject. You intended to criticize Larry with your comment and that would not be the first time.</p>
<p>And as for Mary McCarthy, I am sure you are aware that she signed a letter with Larry, and others like us in the intel community, opposing Mr. Mukasey’s confirmation. It’s a small community, Jeff, and we’re a tight knit group.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45923</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45923</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;TheraP,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree.  Once during the Libby trial, there was a TON of “other side” postings.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My policy: casually track the number of them. Don’t read the content. But make note where they fall in the course of the postings and reread the significant postings of information.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Additionally, it’s usually that EW is spot on. And I just move on and focus on EW’s content.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, Patriots all!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TheraP,</p>
<p>I agree.  Once during the Libby trial, there was a TON of “other side” postings.</p>
<p>My policy: casually track the number of them. Don’t read the content. But make note where they fall in the course of the postings and reread the significant postings of information.</p>
<p>Additionally, it’s usually that EW is spot on. And I just move on and focus on EW’s content.</p>
<p>Yes, Patriots all!</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45921</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, that is a decent point as to using or losing a power.  On the other hand, it is less of a problem when it is one of these Congressional procedural rules.  They pull arcane stuff out of their ass all the time.  And the caselaw is pretty clear as to the power.  Yes, I do think that if ordered to do so, the Sergeant-at-Arms would do the deed.  The punitive action modality I have in mind is jail.  Pure and simple.  Jail.  To the best of my knowledge, they still have one in the basement of Congress.  Probably needs a JiffyMaid to spruce it up; but the Goopers are always whining about being hard on detainees/incarcerated people, so no reason to do much.  Heh, we have a local Gooper sheriff here that actively campaigns on the fact that he feeds moldy bologna (and little else) to the jailbirds.  Let the goops reap that which they have sewn.  Alternatively, Congress can just contract out the detention to a DC district jail; no problem at all, all jails do this for other jurisdictions all the time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that is a decent point as to using or losing a power.  On the other hand, it is less of a problem when it is one of these Congressional procedural rules.  They pull arcane stuff out of their ass all the time.  And the caselaw is pretty clear as to the power.  Yes, I do think that if ordered to do so, the Sergeant-at-Arms would do the deed.  The punitive action modality I have in mind is jail.  Pure and simple.  Jail.  To the best of my knowledge, they still have one in the basement of Congress.  Probably needs a JiffyMaid to spruce it up; but the Goopers are always whining about being hard on detainees/incarcerated people, so no reason to do much.  Heh, we have a local Gooper sheriff here that actively campaigns on the fact that he feeds moldy bologna (and little else) to the jailbirds.  Let the goops reap that which they have sewn.  Alternatively, Congress can just contract out the detention to a DC district jail; no problem at all, all jails do this for other jurisdictions all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45920</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45920</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;I’ve been thinking a lot about the dynamics of trolldom&lt;/em&gt; - especially on this thread, but also on this blog.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  Lots of troll posts suggests to me the importance and threat value of the discussion and research going on here.  And it must present an interesting dilemma to the “other side” from whence comes the &lt;em&gt;pet troll commune&lt;/em&gt;.  On the one hand the other side does not want to tip its hand.  Thus the poverty of thought, the repetitious nature, and the appalling lack of a good opponent in the troll posts.  Yet, rather than simply read and keep track of what this blog is accomplishing (the Pirate’s rants notwithstanding), there seems to be a need to somehow diminish - for your average reader perhaps - the impact and importance of what this group is doing.  So, put yourself in &lt;em&gt;their shoes&lt;/em&gt;, if only for a moment.  This blog is a threat.  Yet can’t be shut down.  And must be disrupted… if possible… somehow.  Therein lies the problem for them.  We know there’s an interest in this thread and others, particularly those that are going after the main crimes and the main ways of covering up the crimes (JMHO here).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course there may be other distractions going on - and I apologize for this “somewhat off-topic” distraction.  Yet it seems to me that allowing for the pet-troll as annoying as that is, allows for monitoring the other side.  Naturally they can never provide a “good opponent” because that would necessitate giving away too much from their side.  Idiocy remains their only tool.  Unless occasional posters might try to plant inaccurate info - which IMO is unlikely to fly here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This thread appears, based on troll activity, to be a hugely important line of inquiry.  And as much as we remain in the dark, apparently the other side can see that we are locating valuable veins of ore and mining them all too well or too closely for comfort.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So you don’t need me saying this, of course, but &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;carry on&lt;/em&gt;!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And as for the other side, you may be able to hide emails and pretend video info is gone for good, but this blog and others, as wel as incriminating info, will remain for posterity.  &lt;em&gt;Of what worth is the life of “troll” spent trying to disrupt instead of accomplishing something positive? &lt;/em&gt; Waste your time here if you like… but those working hard on a selfless task to expose wrong-doing have something to look back on and feel proud of.  Patriots all!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I’ve been thinking a lot about the dynamics of trolldom</em> &#8211; especially on this thread, but also on this blog.</p>
<p>  Lots of troll posts suggests to me the importance and threat value of the discussion and research going on here.  And it must present an interesting dilemma to the “other side” from whence comes the <em>pet troll commune</em>.  On the one hand the other side does not want to tip its hand.  Thus the poverty of thought, the repetitious nature, and the appalling lack of a good opponent in the troll posts.  Yet, rather than simply read and keep track of what this blog is accomplishing (the Pirate’s rants notwithstanding), there seems to be a need to somehow diminish &#8211; for your average reader perhaps &#8211; the impact and importance of what this group is doing.  So, put yourself in <em>their shoes</em>, if only for a moment.  This blog is a threat.  Yet can’t be shut down.  And must be disrupted… if possible… somehow.  Therein lies the problem for them.  We know there’s an interest in this thread and others, particularly those that are going after the main crimes and the main ways of covering up the crimes (JMHO here).  </p>
<p>Of course there may be other distractions going on &#8211; and I apologize for this “somewhat off-topic” distraction.  Yet it seems to me that allowing for the pet-troll as annoying as that is, allows for monitoring the other side.  Naturally they can never provide a “good opponent” because that would necessitate giving away too much from their side.  Idiocy remains their only tool.  Unless occasional posters might try to plant inaccurate info &#8211; which IMO is unlikely to fly here.</p>
<p>This thread appears, based on troll activity, to be a hugely important line of inquiry.  And as much as we remain in the dark, apparently the other side can see that we are locating valuable veins of ore and mining them all too well or too closely for comfort.</p>
<p>So you don’t need me saying this, of course, but <strong><em>carry on</em>!</strong></p>
<p>And as for the other side, you may be able to hide emails and pretend video info is gone for good, but this blog and others, as wel as incriminating info, will remain for posterity.  <em>Of what worth is the life of “troll” spent trying to disrupt instead of accomplishing something positive? </em> Waste your time here if you like… but those working hard on a selfless task to expose wrong-doing have something to look back on and feel proud of.  Patriots all!</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45908</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45908</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the legwork on the inherent contempt.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think we’re still going to have enormous difficulty with enforcing subpoenas by way of  inherent contempt.  An un-exercised power is one that can too readily be ignored or defeated.  Would the Sergeant-at-Arms actually follow through?  Would the DOJ stay out of the way?  What effective punitive actions could be taken that would actually stick and hurt?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, it’s worth a shot; we certainly don’t have much else to lose at this point, and we don’t have many other options.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the legwork on the inherent contempt.</p>
<p>I think we’re still going to have enormous difficulty with enforcing subpoenas by way of  inherent contempt.  An un-exercised power is one that can too readily be ignored or defeated.  Would the Sergeant-at-Arms actually follow through?  Would the DOJ stay out of the way?  What effective punitive actions could be taken that would actually stick and hurt?</p>
<p>On the other hand, it’s worth a shot; we certainly don’t have much else to lose at this point, and we don’t have many other options.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-45902</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/18/henrys-dates-two-data-points-from-the-plame-investigation/#comment-45902</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Could you point out exactly where it says that we are residents of the “Incorporated States of America,” please?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Right there is the fundamental problem with conservatism in America; it has mistaken consumerism and corporatism for democracy.  Cheney and Rove were both on OUR dime, not the other way around, and a little gawddamned piece of paper called the Constitution makes that clear.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am also picturing the wry smirk on EW’s face at the notion of anyone using the title “Mr.” in addressing me.  My kids will certainly be amused.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you point out exactly where it says that we are residents of the “Incorporated States of America,” please?</p>
<p>Right there is the fundamental problem with conservatism in America; it has mistaken consumerism and corporatism for democracy.  Cheney and Rove were both on OUR dime, not the other way around, and a little gawddamned piece of paper called the Constitution makes that clear.</p>
<p>I am also picturing the wry smirk on EW’s face at the notion of anyone using the title “Mr.” in addressing me.  My kids will certainly be amused.</p>
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