Hey, what do you know? The White House still sufficiently recognizes the third branch of government to respond to a judge's request regarding all its lost emails. And as I suspected, the answer to whether or not the back-up tapes for White House emails include the emails not properly archived between March 2003 and October 2005 is, partly, "no." As the CIO of the Office of Administration, Theresa Payton, explains, the White House recycled its backup tapes up until October 2003, so it would not have any missing emails from March 2003 (the beginning of the period when the emails started going missing) and October 2003 (the period when the OA stopped recycling its backup tapes).
Prior to October 2003 and continuing through 2005 and to the present, this office has regularly created back-up tapes for the EOP Network, which includes the system's email servers. Consistent with industry best practices relating to tape media management for disaster recovery back-up systems, these tapes were recycled prior to October 2003. In October 2003, this office began preserving and storing all back-up tapes and continues to do so.
But watch how Payton pretends that this doesn't mean the White House might be missing a chunk of emails.
For that reason [the post-October 2003 preservation of backup tapes], emails sent or received in the 2003-2005 time period should be contained on existing back-up tapes.
[snip]
...in view of this office's practice in the 2003-2005 time period of regularly creating back-up tapes for the EOP Network, which includes servers containing emails, and in view of this office's practice of preserving all such back-up tapes from October 2003 to the present, the back-up tapes should contain substantially all the emails sent or received in the 2003-2005 time period.
As everyone who has read this can understand clearly, Payton's statement doesn't mean what it says. Rather, it is an admission that the White House may well be missing emails written or received between March 2003 and October 2003.
Such a misleading response is only one of the ways in which this response is disingenuous.
Payton explains in her statement that she has been CIO since May 2006--more than six months after the disappearing emails stopped disappearing, and two months after Fitzgerald received the missing OVP emails. Since Payton wasn't present for this documented example of email recovery, she can speak in hypotheticals about the whole process, even while she appears to admit that the tapes have been used to restore data in the past.
The back-up tapes have been used to restore information that is not otherwise available on the EOP Network. When applied to email recovery, the process is complex, labor intensive and costly. By way of hypothetical example, a request to recover a specific file(s) from a particular date or date range within the period of 2003-2005 would be forwarded to the OCIO [that is, to Payton]. The OCIO would then ordinarily consult a media database, similar to a catalogue or back-up tape index, to identify a range of tapes that correspond to that request. In this process, the OCIO may pull tape sets backed up prior to and/or subsequent to the target date period to ensure they have the full population of potential tape sets that may contain the requested file. Additionally, the OCIO would then restore the data-type environment, applicable software, and/or information, and then conduct a search for the information requested. [my emphasis]
Mind you, Payton isn't admitting this has been done (I'm not sure it has, but it seems likely it was in the Plame case), she's just speaking hypothetically.
But the real disingenuous stance she takes has to do with her treatment of CREW's claim that a bunch of email has disappeared. Payton writes,
I am aware of a chart created by a former employee within the OCIO that purports to identify certain dates and EOP components for which the chart's creator appears to have concluded that certain EOP components were missing emails on certain dates in the 2003-2005 time period. Specifically, the chart appears to have concluded that some components on some dates had either (i) a lower-than-expected number of emails preserved in the normal electronic archiving process, or (ii) no emails preserved in the normal electronic archiving process. I believe this is what Plaintiffs refer to as the "detailed analysis."
The OCIO has reviewed the chart and has so far been unable to replicate its results or to affirm the correctness of the assumptions underlying it. Accordingly, this office has serious reservations about the reliability of the chart.
But here's how CREW describes this "chart."
... when the problem was uncovered the White House Office of Administration created abundant documentation that included multiple estimates of the volume of missing email, not a single chart that the White House now suggests is the only documentation. Could it be that having now destroyed the evidence documenting the missing email problem, the White House feels free to retreat from its acknowledgment to Mr. Fitzgerald that White House emails are missing? [my emphasis]
Lucky for us (ha!), Payton assures us she will shortly complete her own review.
...this office has undertaken an independent effort to determine whether there may be anomalies in Exchange email counts for any particular days resulting from the potential failure to properly archive emails for the 2003-2005 time period. That process is underway and we expect the independent assessment to be completed in the near term.
At the very least, the judge should ask for this review as soon as it is completed (heck, a deadline would be nice--after all, the White House responded the last time it got a deadline from this judge), as well as the name of the former employee who put together the "chart" in the first place.
I'd also love to have CREW ask whether Payton's assertions about the Executive Office of the President (EOP)'s emails hold true, as well, for OVP's emails, because Payton engages in some squirminess about Dick's emails. In her general description of the OCIO's duties, Payton explains that it serves both EOP and OVP.
The OCIO, which is an operating unit of OA, provides around-the-clock customer service for all EOP components and the Office of the Vice President, consisting of more than 3000 users and customers, in excess of 200 servers, and over 100 applications.
This seems to suggest that she considers (as the White House has, at times, to protect Dick) OVP a separate entity from EOP. That's curious because the rest of Payton's assertions about the treatment of email backups refer to the "EOP network." Has OCIO been backing up Dick's emails in the same way it does Bush's?
For all its disingenuousness, Payton's statement is useful for one reason. It pinpoints the date when, if these emails and backups were deliberately deleted, that deletion was done: no later than October 2003. Which, of course, happens to be when DOJ started investigating the Plame leak.
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EW, your link in the “White House still sufficiently recognizes the third branch of government to respond…” doesn’t deliver. It’s trying to go to http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/wp-admin/
Shit. word I don’t usually type here or anywhere. Will it hit the fan? Can the progblogosphere do anything to support CREW? to the AG called on this when next before the SJC?
EPUed, so reposting:
The original e-mails AND the backups were erased. And yet Luskin says of Rove’s e-mails, “There’s never been any suggestion that Fitzgerald had anything less than a complete record.”
Let me make it official, then: I suggest that the erasure of both the original e-mails AND the backups could mean that Fitzgerald has something less than a complete record. I further suggest that you would have to have some sort of neurological problem if you thought otherwise.
I also suggest that erasing information that you have a legal obligation to preserve is not “consistent with industry best practices”, unless you are in the business of habitually breaking the law and then getting caught red-handed doing so.
Fixed now. I’m curious to hear your (and WO’s) take on her statement–there are some details that you tech whizzes might be able to make some more hay out of.
Luskin said that after Fitz did a scan of Rove’s machine, presumably using checking the hard drive to check the emails thta had been sent. I don’t know if that guarantees that Fitz had a complete set, but remember that Fitz looked for data in several more places.
I’m waiting for the day when Fitz finds Libby’s emails to Judy. She claims he never used email with her. But we know (from my own emails with her, and the emails of the person she outed) that SHE uses emails pretty religiously. There are emails to Judy, somewhere, I almost guarantee it.
I’m heading over to that link and will report back as soon as thoughts occur. *g*
There a front page story on Dkos. Outrage busting out all over with people there are asking what the law is here. Talkleft’s JM is in courts. Can you help us out here, EW, by way of an update.
BTW, are any MSM reporting this?
I am in favor of legislation banning the use of passive grammatical constructions in these communications. Responses like “Mistakes were made” are not adequate!
Wishfully thinking,
Bob in HI
The AP has covered it, and noticed what we all noticed–the peculiar timing involved. I would imagine Shuster and Olbermann have a field day with it.
The passive voice enables long, rambling, seemingly explanatory versions
of shit happens, so sue me.
The law is : A doctrine called “spoliation” which says that if you destroy evidence that you had an obligation to preserve, if you knew or reasonably should have known that the evidence in question related to a possible claim against you, then your opponent is entitle to a “negative inference” against you.
More simply, with less jargon. The court will instruct the jury that your opponenet is entitled to an inference that the destroyed evidence would either support their case or damage the theory of your case.
This was the problem when Arthur ANderson had it’s shredding party after the Enron collapse. It didn’t matter whether or not they had a regular practice of shredding stuff once it got old. Once htey Knew or should have known that any of that paper might have been relevant to the Enron investigation, they had an obligation to preserve it.
Further, WH has additional obligation to preserve under the Presidential Records Act.
Who had PAyton’s job during the MArch-October period?
I know it’s not news to anybody here, but someone in MSM needs to point out that the 1978 Presidential Records Act requires record retention. The White House was completely aware of that law and chose to disregard it. This, alone, is sufficient ground for criminal prosecution of all those participating in it and impeachment if any evidence of participation by Cheney or Bush is demonstrated.
Just found it. http://ap.google.com/article/A.....AD8U73I302
Wasn’t this a court-ordered deadline?
Timing relative to what or should we say which? Like the Pres. being out of town? IIRC he made the Scooter announcement in DC after leaving the White House Press
stenographersCorps back in Maine. Or the AG’s coming testimony.CAN SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING? SAY SOMETHING? (I am yelling).Can Waxman blanket warn all administrators of backup dates in all exec. depts that they will be halled before congress in batches (like the emails) and questioned? I am literally too riled up to work.
Did the judge ask to look in Cheney’s safe?
Theresa Payton ought to enroll in a basic writing course, with emphasis on clear declarative sentences.
I think Theresa Payton is a former exec with Bank of America (not sure)
In any case, I don’t know what she is fucking talking about…
There will turn out to be other copies of the tapes, kept for their
own purposes, on some other servers, maybe NSA. They need them as badly
as anyone else, liars have to keep track of their lies to stay in the
game.
DOJ starts the Plame investigation and Libby, Cheney, Judy and others all pucker up their butts and swallow the e-mails whole. Just dissect the bunch of them.
That is the exact purpose of the syntax she has been trained in, leaves
you with the WTF look in the mirror.
Under normal circumstances, what does a judge do in this case? And in terms of violation of the pres. records act, who refers the complaint to whom, who has standing?
And who is the judge,is a Bush Co appointee?
Just slipping back from the link to report that Theresa Payton, CIO of the Office of Administration did not personally write that declaration. Twas written by Helen H. Hong, who is…wait for it…
Helen H. Hong
Trial Attorney
U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Division
Who just happens to be legal counsel for the defendants residing at, you guessed it, the White House.
The same Helen H. Hong mentioned in this filing and this filing. These are both related to these same legal proceedings about the WH non-Backup tapes.
Hence the conservative loading of the DC Circuit, local court house
advantage, Texas style.
Oh no, we have a ghost writer?
A suggestion to chew on from mspicarta at dkos (don’t know how to link a comment, so I will quote and h/t the author
OT but we don’t need no environmental laws! Damn seeky whales!
The Raw Story
I suspect that good lawyers never, ever allow techies to write stuff by themselves. We would definitely ruin their day if allowed to pen our own responses. *g*
The technical people hereabouts were discussing Exchange2000; MS usually actually is a few years behind the product date, though, so it would be interesting to hear more about the taxonomy of the MSExchange rollout in EOP, whether it began in select server banks in 2002, e.g. Also, post9-11 best practices, especially for corporate parent offices and key government were for geographic dispersal of archive, meaning some of Paxton’s parsed language could be obscuring offsite archives; the recommendation was at a minimum several hundred miles from the backedup site for mirror archive. I also note Paxton’s bailiwick is nonClassified, which indicates there could be a simple extra-OCIO net way to keep comms confidential by stamping all one’s emails TreatAsIf, and that other classified net would observe offsite redundancy archival. I hear only normal IT jargon about the likelihood OCIO has tapes of everything 24+7 in the October2003ff period, however; and doubt what Paxton was saying would have been someone could have emailed but erased all trace of it by completing the write-erase cycle between backups. Maybe writing an intranet bot to watch for such chicanery would be covered under the rubric of what Paxton describes as responsibility for writing inhouse apps. Reading the new remarks, especially MDog’s Hong advisory, the legalese in the ITese becomes more definite, but the meaning seems straightforward, outside the parsing to avoid divulging much topologic information or actual practices or utils the OCIO writes and maintains. Most of the lexis is standard. Some IT folks might smile to know the acronym ocio in one language means spare time pursuits.
I’ve made this point before, but yes, the WH must have 2 different server environments. The secure server environment is probably used for National Security stuff and staff like stuff Stephen Hadley and crew do. They probably also have a secondary, secure email account for such purposes.
I would hazard a guess that backups from the secure server environment do not generally duplicate information that is contained on the other WH server environment.
There may be some crossover as people and topics intertwine, but I wouldn’t bet much that the “missing WH emails” regarding topics like the firing of the US Attorneys is contained on the secure server backups.
EW @ 5
What about the e-mail that Rove “found” right before the Libby indictment? They had a hard copy of that one, right? Did they ever find the electronic copy?
A few scattered thoughts:
1) LHP @11 is right about “spoilation” of evidence and the inference against interest to the spoiling party. The PRA makes the matter pretty cut and dried.
2) Best Practices? You have got to be kidding me; the twit should be fired on the spot for putting such a spurious and laughably false statement in writing anywhere, much less a formal court pleading/response. This is insane.
3) This quote by Payton cracks me up:
So what she is saying is that such a request would call on her to actually DO HER FUCKING JOB. Oh my, the horror of it all.
4) Payton says “That process is underway and we expect the independent assessment to be completed in the near term.” Um, I thought it HAD been underway. Do you have the freaking emails or not? Yes or no? This is stupid, they aren’t even trying.
5) Has anybody asked the OCIO from the Clinton white House what they did? Why not?
6) This Payton twit can’t replicate CREW’s pie chart or whatever, she sure as hell doesn’t contradict it; that is all that really matters.
7) They had to take until one minute before midnight to file this piece of shit? This piece of dissembling, disingenuous, non-responsive crap could have been ginned up in an hour after the court entered it’s order. The Administration is fucked and they know it. They are like kids at the table running out dinner hour by scrambling the food on their plate, hoping the parents don’t notice and they can just move along.
Back to the non-responsive part. Read this filing against the court’s order. I would suggest it is non-responsive to the point of being contemptible.
9) Any member of Congress refusing to consider impeachment proceedings, against somebody/anybody, is so derelict in their duty and oath to office that they are unfit to serve. It is that simple.
Presumably yes–My assumption has always been thta Fitz received the email in October 2004, planned to indict Rove, but when Luskin gave his stupid ass excuse for why the email hadn’t turned up before, Fitz started looking for the other emails. That was in October 2005, just before indictment week (and note, Fitz also got additional testimony from Adam Levine regarding an email sent at the same time as Rove’s Hadley email), which may bethe explanation for the change in archive policy. And then Fitz got his emails by around February of the following year. Rove got his all clear in June of that year.
Only if I WANTED you in prison would I let you craft your own document. Hmmmm, I’m thinking……
More
dataidea mining fromDkos. not sure if he means the wingnuts gotten a hold of the stuff postfacto but get a hold they did.Anything they can do we can do better?
LOL!
Ah knew it, ah jest knew it! Either pony up for the lawyer’s bar tab, or spend mah life in the clink.
Payton says “this office has undertaken an independent effort …to see if … anomalies in Exchange email counts resulting from the potential failure to properly archive emails”
Two things: 1. It is not “independent” if a judge has ordered you to do it. 2. The question is not whether the emails are missing -because- of failure to preserve backups. (The emails are missing because people deleted them.) The question is what do the backup tapes that you do have tell you empirically about the number of emails to expect in the time period in question. And do the expected number of emails exist in all Exchange accounts (Rove’s, etc.) on the backups — or can you infer that the backups are fewer in number than is reasonable to expect?
5) Has anybody asked the OCIO from the Clinton white House what they did? Why not?
see my @33.
Got to sign off to do the day job.
Why didn’t Helen “Kong” Hong simply submit a one sentence declaration to the effect “The Filipino Monkey did it!”? Really, at this point, it would be just as credible….
So, maybe there were tapes in those boxes being thrown overboard in the Strait of Hormuz? ;>)
We learned a bunch of stuff today, didn’t we?
1) Reliance on “industry best practices” — they will trot this out, a nice little piece of spin that will work on the corporatists in the crowd who are easily fobbed off with buzzwords and corporate-speak. But this is GOVERNMENT, not industry, and the law dictated the practice, best or otherwise.
Come to think of it, if a corporation did such a pissy job of adhering to reporting requirements (like SarbOx compliance), the guilty parties could find themselves in a serious world of hurt. They’d have been fired at the least, prosecuted more likely if a pattern of evasion that exposed the company to legal jeopardy.
“Industry best practices” my left arse cheek. Not unless your industry is racketeering.
2) “EOP network” — yeah, that’s what I thought; the executive offices including Fourth Branch are all part of the same data center. 200 servers? I am NOT impressed, and I would put money on it right now that in the time frame in question, we’re talking about DATA servers, not EMAIL servers for 3000 people. I know for a fact that a 6000 person enterprise running Exchange could run on a mere 10 email servers, depending on the size of the RAID sets. The 200 figure is a red herring, don’t let it throw you off. Even running a parallel secure system wouldn’t require 200 servers. (In 2002, I managed more than that, globally located.) Ditto the 100 applications; how many do you have on your machine right now, the one you’re reading this with? How many on the servers you’re attached to as well? She’s indulging in puffery (or her ghost writer is).
3) Where’s the manuals? Yeah, the documentation they used to manage their systems; this particular agency would not only have a crapload of documentation, but they’d also have added a bunch of new documentation since 2001 reflecting a hardened system. Payton’s still avoiding the fact that those “industry best practices” were theoretically derived from corporations’ IT documentation, and that there’s all kinds of firm guidance in black and white that should have prevented this inexcusable loss of data.
4) “process is complex, labor intensive and costly”, in regards to email recovery. Bullsh*t. Bullsh*t. Bullsh*t. Maybe it’s expensive if you keep your email backups in a black site in Thailand, but that’s not to “industry best practices”, is it? Email recovery should have been a snap; I know this from experience.
I’m sure I’ll see more, but I’ve got a splitting headache from being up all night with this joke — excuse me, clusterfuck — of a primary.
Yeah, but the Google voting map was worth it!
I’m still snowed under at the day job, but here’s a few quick hits from my initial glance throught the WH document:
They archive email using .pst files?!?!? (I’ll be back to explain. This is very revealing and a little weird)
Recycling the backups that contain your email archives is definitely not industry-standard practice.
I’ll have to talk to some folks I know to find out a little more, but I think there are some good clues to what’s been going on.
Two quick comments. The only email traffic I have been able to find that was included as evidence at Libby’s trial that seems to have been part of the February 2006 recovered emails dates from . . . October 1, 2003. (It’s GX 418, and was produced under Addington’s certification apparently, having been printed out February 2, 2006.) But I’m not sure how that fits with what we’ve just learned today, since I’m not sure why an October email wouldn’t have been preserved and found in the first place.
Also, on a related note to do with emails, though this time the RNC emails in part, let me just recall this odd detail, working from Waxman’s interim report that Marcy blogged back in June here. As I noted at the time, Waxman says:
The first e-mail sent by Mr. Rove that the RNC has preserved is dated November 26, 2003.
Hmm. Corn and Isikoff’s Hubris, p. 377-78:
A hard copy of the Hadley-Rove e-mail turned over to Fitzgerald (which was independently obtained by the authors) showed that it had been printed out of Rove’s White House computer on November 25, 2003. One of Rove’s assistant’s, B.J. Goergen, had searched the computer that day at the request of Rove’s attorney, Robert Luskin.
Got that? Rove’s office prints out emails to give to Luskin
to give to Fitzgerald on November 25, 2003, apparently from his White
House computer (but who knows if that includes his political laptop or
his RNC account). Waxman tells us that the RNC has preserved no
emails sent by Rove before November 26, 2003. (Obviously, Fitzgerald knows all this, so the point is not that this would be news to that investigation.) The day after Rove produced this July 2003 email, his RNC account appears to be wiped clean. What’s up with that? And how did they get the July 2003 email in the first place? Was it just that Rove had himself preserved it, even if it was not backed up (or rather the backup had been written over by then)?
Cool, we’ll be here waiting. I had a gut feel the .pst was not what you had speculated they would be doing, so I look forward to hearing why not.
Seconding Rayne above. “Industry Best Practices” say that you put monthly and yearly backups into a vault or via a third-party data and document retention service, never to be overwritten lest there be an emergency or other need for old data. This is standard, across the board behavior, even at small companies.
Dan Eggen at WaPo has a story on the emails:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
Quote from Amy Weismann, chief counsel for CREW:
Also, Eggen throws in this nugget, overcoming my fears @ 13:
I haven’t been following the CREW and Archives litigation, so can someone give a thumbnail on the posture/status?
I thought it was just FOIA requests, but has it gone beyond that to someone asserting a claim that documents were destroyed (or not kept) in violation of statute? And if so, who has the right to press the claims under the statute(s) at issue?
I always did think the 200+/- “missing” (from normal archives, but not from prosecution discovery files) emails was one of the most interesting, least discussed, issues from the Libby case.
So, I guess any emails that might have tied in with the CIA IG’s start up of review of some aspects of the torture programs in “early 2003″ are among the missing?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
This is a common misconception of non-techies. I don’t meany you maryo2, but for the folks in the WH and its attorneys who think that an individual email user, someone like Karl Rove for example, has the ability to delete his emails.
Yes, Karl thinks he can just open his mailbox and delete emails, but that ain’t the same thing as really deleting them on the server.
And just so we’re even clearer about this, ain’t no feckin’ way that Karl Rove was given Administrator’s access to the WH’s EOP Microsoft Exchange email servers.
Even if Karl was given the Exchange server’s Admin logon ID and password, he would have absolutely no clue on how to go about finding these emails, and then somehow deleting them from the server itself.
Deleting one’s emails from one’s own mailbox ain’t deleting them from the server.
And even further, if the Exchange server has massive hard drives (which is typical of email servers), even using the Exchanger server’s Admin privileges to delete emails doesn’t really delete the data from the actual hard drives. Low level utilities can still recover stuff from there.
So in the end, the WH drivel about Karl “deleting” his own emails is just that, feckin’ drivel!
As bmaz so eloquently put it at # 30:
These folks are dissembling like crazy and only a naive 4-year old could possibly buy their BS.
There are no emails.
There are no emails.
There are no emails.
There was a slight mention of the obvious but with the wrong conclusion. If there are emails, then some one sent it, someone got it, someone got a copy or two.
But no one has come up with anything anywhere with anyone, which further proves:
There are no emails.
There are no emails.
There are no emails.
And also
there are no torture tapes.
There are no torture tapes.
There are no torture tapes.
It is sort of like UFOs, Kennedy’s assassination Martin Luther King’s assassination, yellow cake, 911, the two towers.
People will talk, talk, talk, and never get anywhere except in their own feverish minds
April 13, 2007 WH Press Briefing
Perino: “… we do not have any indication that there was any basis to conclude that there was any wrongdoing, intentional wrongdoing in the use of the RNC emails. You’re talking about the double-delete function, where you can delete your deleted files?”
****
Notice that she does not say that there was no wrong doing, she says (rather blatantly) “Na na na boo boo, you don’t have proof that there was intentional wrong doing.”
Then notice she uses the phrase “the double-delete function, where you can delete your deleted files” as if she knows EXACTLY what is meant and how it is done. Nobody else at the pres conference said “You know, Dana, the ‘double-delete’ function.” She used the phrase in a way that implies that she is VERY aware of what and how.
After a quick wiki of .pst it appears that the files are still on the hard drives from 2003 forward, and any backups made. Just guessing, but,
looks like hard drives and tapes would have to be wiped or destroyed to
eleminate files permanently.
These folks are dissembling like crazy and only a naive 4-year old could possibly buy their BS.
That would be George.
42 -
The price of oil? The number of American soldiers killed, maimed, wounded and disabled? The number of people who hate the US? The uncollected bodies in Iraqi morgues? The number of detainees in Iraqi, Afghan, Cuban and blacksite facilities? The “misstatements” on the Congressional and Court records by DOJ employees? The Iraqi refugees in Syria? …
Oh - you just meant isn’t that timing kinda interesting, what with pull out what you want/need, then wipe the rest clean, eh?
My thoughts exactly! Talk about freakin’ amateur-hour! I was just about to post this:
And say just like Rayne, Bullsh*t, Bullsh*t, Bullsh*t!!!
Unless the WH deliberately hired the most incompetent IT folks who submitted resumes, then this is an IT organization run by the 3 Stooges.
And given the fact that EW has told me personally of Microsofties who are under contract to provide services to the WH, and I know for a feckin’ fact that Microsoft don’t hire IT idiots, then something smells like a turd in the punchbowl.
11 & 30
I guess it is because I haven’t followed the cases, but I’m kind of not following here. What is the right/remedy/standing posture on the cases? They seem to be civil actions and are they just to force FOIA releases or are they to pursue some kind of remedy under the PRA and if so, what is the remedy and are they the right guys to ask for it?
IOW, are you looking at a criminal violation of statute or a statute that gives a civil right of action? I’m either out of the loop or looped or both.
Someone appears to be under the impression that if you close your eyes, and repeat something 3 times, and wish real hard, that makes it true. I’m thinking maybe the Wizard of Oz? Or maybe you have to click your heels while your eyes are closed and you’re repeating fervently your wish.
Doesn’t work.
Bob in HI
They are talking shit, hoping nobody will know enough tech to call them
on it… hope it don’t work!
Rayne and WO are right. This can be best described as malicious obediance, not “consistent with industry best practices”…
For those who don’t deal with this on a daily basis an excellent backgrounder on backup tape management is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....Son_Backup
Once you understand the elegant simplicity of managing your tapes, it becomes perfectly clear that Helen is a)unqualified b)mendacious or c)both.
Keeping your email in a PST file can get you fired at many companies because it obscures the IT department’s responsibility of providing communications paper trails to HR when the company faces sexual harrassment charges among other issues like Sarbanes Oxley compliance audits.
You keep your mail in a PST when you want total control of it including the ability to destroy it quickly or take it with you when you leave. More PST’s are out there folks. More tapes have at least some of this data. Is there a Bastard Operator From Hell somewhere willing to share some of this data?
A Filipino Monkey.
Can you say more, at least to hold us over until WO comes back?
ExPFC Wintergreen, where are you? The has to be a copy somewhere, there
is always one kept for restoration at some future point.
Okay. I raised this last week (I think?) when we were discussing the number of employees in the White House.
Anybody have any clue if these two Mitnicks are related?
Ok, Bob.
Show me the emails!
(I’m waiting…)
By the way, as I repeated the incantation, I turned around 3 times, and then back 3 times. I think that should have worked, and indeed it seems so.
Actually I would like to see the emails that no longer exist also, because that would prove just like those who still exist that there is nothing there.
(No one is satisfied.)
Can’t they just call AT&T for the info?
More people stealing my schticht! I am joining the rest of the comedy writers on the strike picket line. I get no respect I tell ya, no respect…..
Oh, Bob.
Don’t feed the trolls. They will just keep coming back for more.
Payton/Hong wrote “Additionally, the OCIO would then restore the data-type environment, applicable software, and/or information, and then conduct a search for the information requested.”
Has the software used for creating and restoring from backup tapes changed since 2003? If it hasn’t changed, then you do’t have to restore the old product.
Has the software used for email changed? If not, then then you don’t have to resotre it.
Don’t worry about searching for the requested information. At this point, you just give the backup media to the courts and they will have professional techies see what is on it.
Are you the sound and the fury, or just the idiot?
Now that is the dumbest question I have ever sen you ask….
Folks,
The line about .pst files may not be what most of you are thinking. It says they saved “journaled emails” to .pst files. Journaled emails are captured at the Exchange Server level. There are different ways to set up journaling. There are valid ways to use this functionality for back ups of emails, but it seems a little strange.
I’ll come back in a bit and explain how it works. If you feel really geeky, just google “Exchange journaling” and read the first microsoft.com page hit you see.
Backup tapes of servers - files and message stores (exchange) - is probably not the same “system” as “archiving” communications for the Presidential records act.
I think WO is talking about the archiving process which would record all sent messages.
Theresa Payton is Chief Information Officer in the Office of Administration, but she didn’t write the response and she doesn’t speak techno-ese. Where was she employed prior to this job? How and when she did she get this job? How old is she? Where’d she go to college? What are her family’s political contributions? (You know, the usual Bush appointee run-down.)
“Don’t feed the trolls. They will just keep coming back for more.”
My bad. Must. ignore. bait.
Bob in HI
WO said:
And since some of you can’t wait for WO’s return, here’s an MS definition of journaling as it applies to Exchange server email:
She is an IT person, member of Women in Information Science and Engineering (WISE), and one with thoughts about leadership:
Good leaders develop through a never-ending process of self-study, education, training, and experience. The discussion with our panelists and the attendees was true proof that this should be our credo.” — Theresa Payton
http://www.localtechwire.com/b.....y/1161418/
more as I collect it. I have more or less given up on doing work today other than the off with my head if not type.
Here is the job she was doing in Charlotte:
Theresa Payton, senior vice president of retail and channel technology at Wachovia Corp., a financial-services firm in Charlotte, N.C., agrees. “As women, it is important that we acknowledge our responsibility to the future women leaders. We need to continue to evolve the workplace culture to advance this field as an attractive option for young women to enter.”
after that, a senior vice president for Bank of America, in 2005.
and guess what, a donor to the RNC.
Theresa Payton
Senior Vice President
Bank Of America
RNC
$750
2004 907 E Worthington Ave
Charlotte NC
Theresa Payton has been a senior executive at Bank of America as well as senior vice president of retail and channel technology at Wachovia Corp., a financial-services firm in Charlotte, N.C.
BUT GET THIS: the link takes you to a Google page; then click on the link that reads “CIO Boot Camp – November 8-9, 2006″. Wow. she not only went to a boot camp to learn her job, it was run by freaking Frederick of Hollywood Thompson!
Reading the filing:
A.4. is just mind-numbing geekspeak. Can be ignored.
A.5. She says .pst files are “maintained” on the EOP network, but not that they are backed up from there. She says that “part of” the OCIO’s responsibilities is an implementation of archiving so that, say, mails older than 30 days are saved there instead of cluttering up one’s inbox. However, this does not speak to backing up the server or where they are backed up from, which would be from the Exchange Server itself. Exchange does not use .pst’s to store its data and backups of Exchange servers do not convert its data files to pst’s. (Microsoft’s word on the issue). This section is pretty much fluff, as pertains to the missing email.
B.6. Here she acknowledges only in the last part of the last sentence that “email databases” get backed up onto tape. These glossed over email databases are where the gold is.
B.7. This is a general description of the purpose of backing up data. It’s fine, but seems to have an ulterior motive in foregrounding a concept of “limitation” in these backups. Leaving herself an out, as it were, but we’ll see if it gets used.
B.8. This is an overview of a sample recovery scenario. I believe that when she says the email recovery process is “complex, labor intensive, and costly,” she means to say that recovering email requires someone to do something, somewhere. It’s not particularly difficult to recover email for a properly backed-up Exchange Server, and by way of anecdote I have in the past routinely recovered individual emails and .pst’s for executives in a 40 person (small!) company, people who think the delete key is shorthand for “let the IT guy work his magic.” Many, many IT people have done this and in fact is probably a leading source of specialized Exchange backup tool sales, since invariably the first thing that happens after an Exchange server is installed that someone wants to get something back from the past.
C.9. OK
C.10. Denigrates plaintiff’s chart-based rationale.
C.11. More chart. OK, so she can’t verify the chart. What does that say about the emails? Nothing yet. Well, not so quick. She has started people on a (I’m guessing a complex, labor intensive and costly) project to compare the counts of emails. What they are probabaly doing here is getting backup statistics from the tapes themselves and comparing those with the backup logs that might be somewhere else. Maybe, but I’m guessing here. Suffice it to say that this is not putting people to work recovering the emails, they just comparing some numbers and hope to be finished “in the near term.”
D.12(a) Here she turns the recovery process on its head, seemingly in an attempt to be confusing. She could just be a bureaucrat with no concept of logical paragraph structure though. The gist of this response is that the tapes themselves have barcodes but no date informating ON THE TAPE. But the bar code can be scanned to figure out which period the information on that tape covers, as well as being able to search the media database for particular files and having the database list the relevant bar codes, tape IDs, or other identifying characteristic for that data. They can go both ways, though: they can scan a particular tape to see what data it has, and they can search within their backup software to find the tapes that cover the data/dates desired.
D.12(b) This one’s pretty funny. She’s saying there’s “a field” in the database of their backup software that identifies the “type” of server for that tape or backup session. Of course, what she doesn’t mention is that there are lots of other fields, too. She is focussing on the most minor bit of information in an identifying process, kind of like saying that you don’t know what kind of car you have because you only look at the tires. Of course this field seems only to say what kind of server is involved (possibly a “Type” or “Description” column in the interface). So what she’s saying here is that Exchange servers are identified as mail servers in their backup software. That’s all.
D.12(c) “We reused tapes until October 2003.” Typically this would be daily tapes, since (as I posted above) it’s industry best practice to retain some periodic backups permanently, typically yearly and monthly. Some organizations will recycle monthlies once the yearly is vaulted, but since the EOP backup practice was modified in October they still would have had all monthlies at the end of the year when taking the annual backup. This is if they in fact save these monthlies as might be standard practice. The balance of the response says that they should still have everything from 10/2003 forward.
D.12(d) This part seems to have been written by a lawyer. They don’t know if they have the emails, presumably because all of their backup engineers are still counting and comparing (cf. B.8 & C.11). “However,” as in the previous response, due to their post-10/2003 practices they “should” have the emails.
That’s my take on it, anyway! If I boil it down in my head she’s saying that pre-10/2003 emails are of unknown existence and post-10/2003 “should” be there. Not exactly a clear-cut response.
Oh and one question: She’s only been the CIO there since May 2006, who was her predecessor?
Well I learned something; I always assumed the only risk to destroying evidence was a separate charge. I didn’t realize that there was a remedy for the effected case as well.
This changes the level of wrong doing required to make the trade off of the destruction charges compared to what the evidence would prove. I would say that in this light, there is much more hidden in the “lost” data than I originally assumed. they are risking losing any case as well as destruction of evidence charges.
For me this also applies to my take on the torture tapes as well.
This is much more interesting than I thought!
But best of all, in 2006, she headed up a discussion of cybersecurity along with a G-woman and lots of IT honchos. so protecting records is her specialty.
http://www.localtechwire.com/b.....y/1166520/
This is great stuff. Your stuff,not my googling. Surely there is a way to communicate all this technical expertise to the right people, be they the plaintiff or the appropriate congress critter. Lurkers take note!
What credible information do we have that suggests the White House is even now complying with the requirements of the Presidential Records Act? What have they done to fix earlier admitted non-compliance? If little or nothing, haven’t we another case of continuing, ongoing illegal behavior by President Bush and those who conspire to prevent or delay curing such illegalities.
If Congress does nothing in the face of serial violations of law, who would not predict that Bush/Cheney will claim that inaction as a positive affirmation that whatever the level of this administration’s compliance, Congress acquiesced in and, therefore, ratified it? Hence, all are immune, and we still ain’t got no tapes. I don’t know how a f