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	<title>Comments on: Helgerson&#8217;s Reports Will Remain Unchanged</title>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-42391</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;RFW - I hope you’re right, but it seems highly premature to conclude that the threat from the coup attempt, as you describe it, has passed.  This seems to me to be a highly dangerous time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RFW &#8211; I hope you’re right, but it seems highly premature to conclude that the threat from the coup attempt, as you describe it, has passed.  This seems to me to be a highly dangerous time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-42142</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;29- not missing your point at all.  Just as during the high alert Clinton established prior to the Millenium celebrations, if Bush had done what he SHOULD HAVE done with the information he ALREADY HAD, then yes, there would have been more cooperation. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the IG’s report wasn’t looking at that “what if” but instead at the “what did”  And EVEN WITHOUT a high alert, CIA should NOT have blocked the FBI memo.  There is no IG for the WH and I don’t agree that the IG for the CIA should pretend that there is nothing they could have done better, just because it is also true that they had done well enough that with a minimally competent President, 9/11 would have been averted.  You operate your agency/business around the weakest link and more times than you might otherwise expect, that weakest link has CEO powers.   That doesn’t mean everyone else is completely off the hook.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>29- not missing your point at all.  Just as during the high alert Clinton established prior to the Millenium celebrations, if Bush had done what he SHOULD HAVE done with the information he ALREADY HAD, then yes, there would have been more cooperation. </p>
<p>But the IG’s report wasn’t looking at that “what if” but instead at the “what did”  And EVEN WITHOUT a high alert, CIA should NOT have blocked the FBI memo.  There is no IG for the WH and I don’t agree that the IG for the CIA should pretend that there is nothing they could have done better, just because it is also true that they had done well enough that with a minimally competent President, 9/11 would have been averted.  You operate your agency/business around the weakest link and more times than you might otherwise expect, that weakest link has CEO powers.   That doesn’t mean everyone else is completely off the hook.</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-42028</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/#comment-42028</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmmm - I’m still of the opinion that the Agonizingly Slow Law Enforcement Response to Bushco has been due to it being the largest RICO Prosecution of all time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When the Big Bag of Criminals has the draw-string pulled tight over them - and we’re in the End Game now - it’s certain to be an Impressive Collection of Ideological Co-Conspirators - Bush, Cheney, Addington, Gonzo, Libby, Rove, Miers, Wolfowitz, and many, many Blind and “Devoid of Morals” Loyalists.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hopefully, we’ll start seeing Responsive Document Production, Subpoena Compliance, Traditional Executive Privilege Assertions - and a steady flow of Revealed Lesser Criminals, like Duberstein and Hholt, getting booked into Federal Prison.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No More Immunity - We are down to the Co-Conspirators who schemed to Break the Law while Claiming to be Above the Law. This has been a Near-Miss with a Carefully Planned Ideological-Totalitarian Covert Coup d’Etat.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Cheney would Fall quickly in the on-slaught of Unobstructed Oversight and Resign. Cornyn (Tx - this all about protecting Bush), imho, would come-in as the new Veep. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then, Bush will Resign over Torture or face having the Copies of the Torture Tapes entered as Evidence against him in an Impeachment Inquiry. Cornyn becomes the new President, and Kyl is brought in as the new Veep.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This should be The End of the Republican Party - they won’t recover the Trust of the People in any of Our Lifetimes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Only Monsters Order Torture.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm &#8211; I’m still of the opinion that the Agonizingly Slow Law Enforcement Response to Bushco has been due to it being the largest RICO Prosecution of all time.</p>
<p>When the Big Bag of Criminals has the draw-string pulled tight over them &#8211; and we’re in the End Game now &#8211; it’s certain to be an Impressive Collection of Ideological Co-Conspirators &#8211; Bush, Cheney, Addington, Gonzo, Libby, Rove, Miers, Wolfowitz, and many, many Blind and “Devoid of Morals” Loyalists.</p>
<p>Hopefully, we’ll start seeing Responsive Document Production, Subpoena Compliance, Traditional Executive Privilege Assertions &#8211; and a steady flow of Revealed Lesser Criminals, like Duberstein and Hholt, getting booked into Federal Prison.</p>
<p>No More Immunity &#8211; We are down to the Co-Conspirators who schemed to Break the Law while Claiming to be Above the Law. This has been a Near-Miss with a Carefully Planned Ideological-Totalitarian Covert Coup d’Etat.</p>
<p>I think Cheney would Fall quickly in the on-slaught of Unobstructed Oversight and Resign. Cornyn (Tx &#8211; this all about protecting Bush), imho, would come-in as the new Veep. </p>
<p>Then, Bush will Resign over Torture or face having the Copies of the Torture Tapes entered as Evidence against him in an Impeachment Inquiry. Cornyn becomes the new President, and Kyl is brought in as the new Veep.</p>
<p>This should be The End of the Republican Party &#8211; they won’t recover the Trust of the People in any of Our Lifetimes.</p>
<p>Only Monsters Order Torture.</p>
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		<title>By: BayStateLibrul</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-42009</link>
		<dc:creator>BayStateLibrul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/#comment-42009</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dana Priest answers Q’s&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/12/27/DI2007122702056.html?sid=ST2008010303806&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....8010303806&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana Priest answers Q’s</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/12/27/DI2007122702056.html?sid=ST2008010303806" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/&#8230;..8010303806</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41995</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;You may well be right.  It could well come out, and W may well be ousted from power.  But how do we avoid getting President Dick?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may well be right.  It could well come out, and W may well be ousted from power.  But how do we avoid getting President Dick?</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41992</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 05:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/#comment-41992</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Helgerson’s Report may turn out to be The One Fact that Bush and Cheney couldn’t Fix, to Fit the Policy of Secret Systematic Torture, despite being able to suppress it for a long time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suspect Helgerson’s Report says that Bush and Cheney, through Addington and Gonzo, in the aftermath of 911, drove an effort to Authorize and Order a Compartmented Covert Operation to Manage the “Harsh Techniques” Interrogation Program - that got its orders from the White House.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The facts are likely, imho, to show that Bush ordered the Secret Program strictly on the strength of his “inherent Article II Powers” as the UE. From that point on, the actual Legal Opinions produced to ‘justify’ the Secret Program since have been miserable works of Lawyering, putting gallons of lipstick on the Torture Pig, to no avail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Secret Torture Program, no doubt, is as much The President’s Program as the NSA’s Warrantless Wiretapping was The President’s Program, too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;These Legal Fights we see now are but Echoes of Bush’s Initial Power Grab, when he climbed Above the Law and refused to let anyone Check or Balance him.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s taken Years, fucking Years, to peel away layer after layer of Lies and Misdirections to finally get to Ground Zero - Bush’s Hateful Mistrust and Paranoid Suspicions exposed as the “basis” of his (Secret Personal) Terror Presidency.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He declared himself Above the Law on a Pretext - Created Secret Programs to Torture his “Enemies” and Surveil his “Friends” - and then simply Refused to Give the Power Back. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Biggest Issue with the Torture Tapes, imvho, isn’t that Jose Destroyed Them, so much as Bush Created An Illegal Secret Program of Cruel and Inhuman Treatment - in contravention to the Geneva Conventions - when He Ordered the Waterboarding to Begin With.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, if it turns out that Bush/Cheney/Addington/Gonzo ordered Rodriguez to Destroy the Tapes, too, then that would be the closing of a Conspiratorial Loop, perfect confirmation that BushCo has been Running From Helgerson’s Investigation almost since the very beginning of their Administration. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BushCo only Thought they ‘Fixed’ the Facts when they Destroyed the Torture Tapes and Sat On Helgerson’s Report.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helgerson’s Report may turn out to be The One Fact that Bush and Cheney couldn’t Fix, to Fit the Policy of Secret Systematic Torture, despite being able to suppress it for a long time.</p>
<p>I suspect Helgerson’s Report says that Bush and Cheney, through Addington and Gonzo, in the aftermath of 911, drove an effort to Authorize and Order a Compartmented Covert Operation to Manage the “Harsh Techniques” Interrogation Program &#8211; that got its orders from the White House.</p>
<p>The facts are likely, imho, to show that Bush ordered the Secret Program strictly on the strength of his “inherent Article II Powers” as the UE. From that point on, the actual Legal Opinions produced to ‘justify’ the Secret Program since have been miserable works of Lawyering, putting gallons of lipstick on the Torture Pig, to no avail.</p>
<p>The Secret Torture Program, no doubt, is as much The President’s Program as the NSA’s Warrantless Wiretapping was The President’s Program, too.</p>
<p>These Legal Fights we see now are but Echoes of Bush’s Initial Power Grab, when he climbed Above the Law and refused to let anyone Check or Balance him.</p>
<p>It’s taken Years, fucking Years, to peel away layer after layer of Lies and Misdirections to finally get to Ground Zero &#8211; Bush’s Hateful Mistrust and Paranoid Suspicions exposed as the “basis” of his (Secret Personal) Terror Presidency.</p>
<p>He declared himself Above the Law on a Pretext &#8211; Created Secret Programs to Torture his “Enemies” and Surveil his “Friends” &#8211; and then simply Refused to Give the Power Back. </p>
<p>The Biggest Issue with the Torture Tapes, imvho, isn’t that Jose Destroyed Them, so much as Bush Created An Illegal Secret Program of Cruel and Inhuman Treatment &#8211; in contravention to the Geneva Conventions &#8211; when He Ordered the Waterboarding to Begin With.</p>
<p>Now, if it turns out that Bush/Cheney/Addington/Gonzo ordered Rodriguez to Destroy the Tapes, too, then that would be the closing of a Conspiratorial Loop, perfect confirmation that BushCo has been Running From Helgerson’s Investigation almost since the very beginning of their Administration. </p>
<p>BushCo only Thought they ‘Fixed’ the Facts when they Destroyed the Torture Tapes and Sat On Helgerson’s Report.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41950</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT - yet another reason to dump News Corp stock.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;(2) To protest Fox News’ outrageous (though revealing) exclusion of Ron Paul from the GOP New Hampshire debate this week, Paul supporters announced that they were going to dump News Corp. stock. I have no idea whether it has had an effect, but Paul supporters are claiming that it has, and the price trend line for News Corp.’s stock price since that campaign was announced does seem pronounced:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;News Corp. stock has been declining steadily for the last three months, but the plummeting of the last several days is more severe.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/03/various_items/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greenwald &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT &#8211; yet another reason to dump News Corp stock.</p>
<blockquote><p>(2) To protest Fox News’ outrageous (though revealing) exclusion of Ron Paul from the GOP New Hampshire debate this week, Paul supporters announced that they were going to dump News Corp. stock. I have no idea whether it has had an effect, but Paul supporters are claiming that it has, and the price trend line for News Corp.’s stock price since that campaign was announced does seem pronounced:</p>
<p>News Corp. stock has been declining steadily for the last three months, but the plummeting of the last several days is more severe.</p>
<p>- <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/03/various_items/index.html" rel="nofollow">Greenwald </a></p>
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		<title>By: JimWhite</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41947</link>
		<dc:creator>JimWhite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/#comment-41947</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT–Go Jayhawks!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT–Go Jayhawks!</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41944</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;21 - I’m not defending Bush, just pointing out why the IG, who was investigating what the CIA did, not what Bush did, might have found some things to criticize. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you’re missing my point even though you think all I’m saying is bush failed&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;here’s the point that I believe I did not make clear;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;had bush followed the template, which was to put all agencies on high alert and what to look for&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;do you have any doubt those items you mentioned would not have been triaingulated?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;of course they would have been, and to be certain, some of that information was in fact being examined however since there was no alert it couldn’t have been shared expeditiously&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;that is the point, the inteligence gathering agencies were an unqualified success, the only failure of inteligence was the inteligence of the president&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>21 &#8211; I’m not defending Bush, just pointing out why the IG, who was investigating what the CIA did, not what Bush did, might have found some things to criticize. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>you’re missing my point even though you think all I’m saying is bush failed</p>
<p>here’s the point that I believe I did not make clear;</p>
<p>had bush followed the template, which was to put all agencies on high alert and what to look for</p>
<p>do you have any doubt those items you mentioned would not have been triaingulated?</p>
<p>of course they would have been, and to be certain, some of that information was in fact being examined however since there was no alert it couldn’t have been shared expeditiously</p>
<p>that is the point, the inteligence gathering agencies were an unqualified success, the only failure of inteligence was the inteligence of the president</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/comment-page-1/#comment-41942</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/03/helgersons-reports-will-remain-unchanged/#comment-41942</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hope there is a remnant of FEC to oversee elections, though libertarians decry its miniscule budget.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kansas.com/news/state/story/266568.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;KS caging &lt;/a&gt; registered letters to profile the demographics would be all.  Thor Hearne has filed an amicus brief in SCourt’s soon to argue Crawford case (voter ID)…But OT for the very narrow tortcha tapes investigation thread, I take the confines of the SC’s charter in this matter to be in large measure retribution upon TheCo, as a commenter observed in a different thread, and Helgerson’s original reports preservation an effort to keep his involvement moderate; I hope a substantial measure of it is public documents.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope there is a remnant of FEC to oversee elections, though libertarians decry its miniscule budget.  <a href="http://www.kansas.com/news/state/story/266568.html" rel="nofollow">KS caging </a> registered letters to profile the demographics would be all.  Thor Hearne has filed an amicus brief in SCourt’s soon to argue Crawford case (voter ID)…But OT for the very narrow tortcha tapes investigation thread, I take the confines of the SC’s charter in this matter to be in large measure retribution upon TheCo, as a commenter observed in a different thread, and Helgerson’s original reports preservation an effort to keep his involvement moderate; I hope a substantial measure of it is public documents.</p>
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