I noted here that both Michael Hayden and John Helgerson are recusing themselves from the torture tape criminal investigation.
Hayden said in a statement today that he was recusing himself from any involvement in the new Justice investigation because of his past role in reviewing the tape destruction. "It is important to avoid the conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, that surely would arise if I were also involved in the ongoing investigation," Hayden said.
CIA Inspector General John L. Helgerson announced that he also would recuse himself from the criminal inquiry to avoid a conflict of interest. Helgerson said he and his staff had "reviewed the tapes at issue some years ago," during the time when agency officials were debating whether to destroy them.
"During the coming weeks I anticipate describing fully the actions I and my office took on this matter to investigators from the executive and legislative branches," Helgerson said in a statement. "It is important to avoid the conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, that surely would arise if I were also involved in the ongoing investigation." [my emphasis]
Since Hayden wasn't at CIA when the tapes were destroyed in 2005, I presume when he says he was involved in reviewing the tape destruction, he's referring to his lead-up to sending a silly letter to CIA making transparent excuses for why the torture tapes were destroyed [Update: actually, I take that back. Hayden was Deputy DNI starting in April 2005, so early enough to be party to the summer 2005 discussions between John Negroponte, then DNI, and Porter Goss, in which Negroponte told Goss not to destroy the tapes]. I'll come back to that in a second. But for now, I'm more interested in Helgerson's reasons for recusing (I'd point out that if he has to recuse going forward, he should have already recused. But this is the Bush Administration, after all).
Helgerson notes he and his staffers "had 'reviewed the tapes at issue some years ago,' during the time when agency officials were debating whether to destroy them." The "time when agency officials were debating whether to destroy them" is generally described as February pr March 2003 (when CIA first pitched destroying them to the Gang of Four) through November 2005 (when they were destroyed). We also know there was a CIA briefing for the White House involving Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, and John Bellinger in May 2004, not long after the Abu Ghraib scandal became public (but long after Gonzales, at least, was likely aware of the impending scandal).
In other words, Helgerson and his staff reviewed the torture tapes sometime between early 2003 and late 2005, quite possibly close to the time of that May 2004 White House briefing.
Which is rather significant, since that earlier period (2003 to 2004) coincides with the period when Helgerson's office was also investigating the CIA's interrogation program. Here's a Doug Jehl story on the report that was published (will coinkydinks never cease?!?!?!) on November 9, 2005, within days of the torture tape destruction and apparently one day after the CIA issued a statement denying they torture (though the statement doesn't appear in their collection of public statements from the period).
A classified report issued last year by the Central Intelligence Agency's inspector general warned that interrogation procedures approved by the C.I.A. after the Sept. 11 attacks might violate some provisions of the international Convention Against Torture, current and former intelligence officials say.
[snip]
The report, by John L. Helgerson, the C.I.A.'s inspector general, did not conclude that the techniques constituted torture, which is also prohibited under American law, the officials said. But Mr. Helgerson did find, the officials said, that the techniques appeared to constitute cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment under the convention.
The agency said in a written statement in March that "all approved interrogation techniques, both past and present, are lawful and do not constitute torture." It reaffirmed that statement on Tuesday, but would not comment on any classified report issued by Mr. Helgerson. The statement in March did not specifically address techniques that could be labeled cruel, inhuman or degrading, and which are not explicitly prohibited in American law.
The officials who described the report said it discussed particular techniques used by the C.I.A. against particular prisoners, including about three dozen terror suspects being held by the agency in secret locations around the world. They said it referred in particular to the treatment of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who is said to have organized the Sept. 11 attacks and who has been detained in a secret location by the C.I.A. since he was captured in March 2003. Mr. Mohammed is among those believed to have been subjected to waterboarding, in which a prisoner is strapped to a board and made to believe that he is drowning.
In his report, Mr. Helgerson also raised concern about whether the use of the techniques could expose agency officers to legal liability, the officials said. They said the report expressed skepticism about the Bush administration view that any ban on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment under the treaty does not apply to C.I.A. interrogations because they take place overseas on people who are not citizens of the United States.
I've seen the report's publication date as either April or May 2004--but in any case, at almost exactly the same time CIA briefed Addington, Gonzales, and Bellinger on the torture tapes. Which makes Helgerson's claim that he "reviewed the tapes at issue" during that period particularly interesting. Helgerson's report--which focuses on the treatment of a number of named detainees--may have relied on those torture tapes to form the judgment that the CIA was engaged in cruel and inhuman treatment. In fact, it's even possible that the CIA briefing in May 2004 pertained not just to Abu Ghraib (which was, after all, a DOD operation, not a CIA one), but also to the fact that the CIA IG had just declared in a written report that the tactics used (and presumably shown in the tapes) amounted to illegal treatment of detainees.
So let's review the coinkydinks, for a moment. John Helgerson published an IG report (possibly relying on the tapes) suggesting the CIA's interrogation program may be illegal almost exactly contemporaneously with the date of CIA-White House briefing at which they discussed destroying the torture tapes. Then, one week after the Dana Priest story and several days after Brinkema's inquiry on whether the government had any tapes from interrogations, the CIA issues a public statement denying it tortures. And the following day, voila! The most extensive discussion of the IG report comes out in the NYT. And, either shortly before or shortly after this newspaper article, the torture tapes are destroyed.
If Helgerson viewed the tapes and used them to conclude that the interrogations were illegal, it would sure explain one of the motivations for destroying the tapes.
But that's not all. Recall that between the time that the first tapes were found (September 13, 2007) and the time when the NYT reported on the destruction of the tapes (December 6, 2007), Michael Hayden's investigation into Helgerson became public (October 11, 2007, also in an article by Mazzetti and Shane).
A small team working for General Hayden is looking into the conduct of the agency’s watchdog office, which is led by Inspector General John L. Helgerson. Current and former government officials said the review had caused anxiety and anger in Mr. Helgerson’s office and aroused concern on Capitol Hill that it posed a conflict of interest.
The review is particularly focused on complaints that Mr. Helgerson’s office has not acted as a fair and impartial judge of agency operations but instead has begun a crusade against those who have participated in controversial detention programs.
[snip]
Some agency officers believe the aggressive investigations by Mr. Helgerson amount to unfair second guessing of intelligence officers who are often risking their lives in the field.
“These are good people who thought they were doing the right thing,” said one former agency official. “And now they are getting beat up pretty bad and they have to go out an hire a lawyer.”
That investigation (which was scuttled by Congress) sure looks like it pertained to Helgerson's investigation of CIA interrogation methods. And Hayden's investigation of Helgerson may well have coincided with Hayden's "review of the tape destruction."
In other words, this investigation seems like nothing so much as the end product of a bloody Spook fight that follows up several skirmishes over the years.
Update: This, from Mazzetti and Johnston, appears to support my supposition that Helgerson's investigation used the tapes in its determination that the CIA was engaged in cruel and inhuman treatment.
In an announcement on Wednesday, John Helgerson, the inspector general, said he would recuse himself from the investigation to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest.
Mr. Helgerson’s office had reviewed the videotapes, documenting the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, as part of an investigation into the agency ‘s secret detention and interrogation program.
The tapes are thought to portray the use of the technique known as waterboarding, which simulates drowning and which has widely been condemned as torture.
Mr. Helgerson completed his investigation into the program in early 2004. [my emphasis]
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Marcy. there’s a typo in Helgerson’s name is the first sentence,.
Ooh. Thanks dipper–I hate spelling that name. It’s totally counterintuitive.
So, Hayden’s recusing himself because he investigated Helgerson for investigating the torture.
Well, yeah, that might be what he meant by his “past role in reviewing the tape destruction.”
What’s the potential collateral damage in a bloody Spook fight?
My bet is on the Constitution.
Clarification requested: …complaints that Mr. Helgerson’s office … has begun a crusade against those who have participated in controversial detention programs…causing people to have to go out and hire lawyers’?
Looks like Helgerson got on the wrong side of Hayden. Oh, my…
Wonder what Kean, Hamilton, Wall Street, ExxonMobil, and the ERs make of this little tempest?
Hayden: “It is important to avoid the conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, that surely would arise if I were also involved in the ongoing investigation.”
Helgerson: “It is important to avoid the conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, that surely would arise if I were also involved in the ongoing investigation.”
Who is representing them? Sounds like one and the same, or maybe that is just standard lingo….but it also looks like “watch syncronyzation”…to cover for when they both “reviewed the tapes”…
What the hell do they mean by “conflict of interest“?????
Question #1 - Did Mr. Helgerson travel to, um, Poland or Rumania during the relevant time period?
Question #1A - Do the publicly avilable logs of Ghost Air flights collected by plane-spotters indicate travel of a Ghost Air flight through, um, Poland or Rumania during the relevant time period?
Question #2 - If the answer to question #1 is “no” - how did he review them? By having them brought to him? By having their contents described to him? (If so, who described them?) By having them played over an internet-type link from, um, Poland or Rumania?
Not exactly. You forget the presence of OGA types (and contractors servicing OGAs) in Abu Ghraib and telling the military what to do to “set the conditions” for interrogation.
Nice to see Conyers saying “Nice try, but not nearly enough, Mukasey.”
Ummm… 18 USC 2441, prior to the MCA’s alterations in ‘06, clearly states it was illegal…!
The whole thing reminds me of “Goodfellas” Part Deux….
“Why is your wife wearing the mink coat!!…..”
Then the music starts ramping up as they nail each other right and left…helicopters flying over their houses as they “destroy” the coke…
Heh, heh, heh.
Then what’s his name, whistleblows and is given witness protection….
Back to reality…oh, yeah, that is reality….
Conyers is like the frog that patiently waits for the fly to land on his tongue…Waxman…he’s like the bloodhound…relentless…on pure instinct…
Leahy weighs in…
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) did not object to Durham’s appointment, but he did caution Mukasey that the panel wants more information about the tapes from the Justice Department.
“I remain concerned that the constitutional oversight role of Congress has been ignored in the discovery and destruction of these tapes,” Leahy said. “I look forward to hearing further from Attorney General Mukasey when he comes before the Judiciary Committee this year. I hope the Justice Department will cooperate with Congress as it investigates this serious matter.”
I get the impression that it is not the fact that they were “tortured”, it is what they said when they were tortured…like…Pakistan…Atta…$$$…ISI…who knows..
9/11 is the really big elephant in the room. Pakistan was involved prior to 9/11…Al Qaeda was a creation aided by Pakistan….Money was transferred to Atta by a Pakistani General for heavens sake….perhaps “agents” were “exposed” by the interrogated; thereby blowing the Al Qaeda BS up. Just look at the Bhutto assassination, where they want to blame everything on AQ….they are inventing a narrative that our own eyes know is not true.
Musharraf stated years ago that he thought OBL was probably dead…this whole thing stinks to the core…to the core.
one quick question please;
excuse me?
what cia is that?
that would have to be “team b”, not the real cia
more on “team b”
OT - but sort of, considering the topic is the Administration, I find this interesting to add to the Bhutto stuff:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...../50/429118
It is all a horrendous snakepit…
Shadow Government.
I think your post is on the money. In fact, follow the money…
…all profits from natural gas from the former Soviet [insert prefix]-stans flow through **drumroll** Dubai! The new world headquarters of Halliburton! (BTW, the natural gas will flow through Afganistan & Pakistan.)
There is something really ugly going on. Thank god we have a free and open press.
Slight metaphor adjustment
LS:
BayStateLibrul:
I would say that Leahy better fits the description of the frog waiting for the fly to land on his tongue.
Conyers is the frog who actively and aggressively catches the fly but then declares swallowing it “off the table.”
CIA could not “approve” anything. Right? Only Bush/Cheney “pixie dust” direction held supposed weight, directive authored by Yoo etal. at the dirction of Bush and co-Prezdinent Cheeeneee.
Get rid of “the problem”…I don’t care how you do it, just do it, and let me know when it is done…on second thoughts…do it, but don’t tell me anything…I don’t know when, how, or anything…just do it.
That fits too.
Yes. I would add that Mukasey has become a new version of Mordac. In Dilbert, he’s the Preventer of Information Services. In Washington, he is the Preventer of Justice.
That would be known as the Sgt. Schultz gambit I believe.
“I knowwwwww nothingggggggg, Col. Hogan!”
So, maybe Rodriguez was told to destroy the tapes so that the non-existence of the tapes could be compartmentalized…i.e., he destroyed them..should the law come snooping around…
Meanwhile others, kept copies, in the event that destruction of the tapes would lead to another type of obstruction.
It’s like…they are destroyed…but it depends on who you actually ask.
I’ll bet copies or the originals still exist.
Greenwald nails it again…
http://www.commondreams.org/ar.....1/02/6109/
So what can Congress do now?
EW, I’m a little confused by this
I was under the impression that the “found” tapes are not the same as the “destroyed” tapes (i.e., they record different prisoners). Is that still the current interpretation, or do we now believe the found tapes contain the same material as the destroyed tapes. Your use of the article “the” makes this a bit confusing.
So, what happens if and when prosecutions start revving up for the crime of destroying the videotapes, and then it turns out that the originals, or the contents thereon (IANAL, but I like a good “thereon” now and then), turn up?
Correct–sorry for my confusing formulation. Set A–those tapes which still exist which should have been admitted to Brinkema–those still exist. Set B–those tapes which also should have been admitted to Brinkema–those no longer exist.
You get the feeling that the fact that they kept some copies is going to end up looking particularly damning, huh?
exactly
Agreed. You might want to read the previous thread on Lying To Congress Before the Torture Tapes
Rayne and myself posted many links on this topic including the following:
Not only Brinkema’s inquiries are at issue with alleged obstruction but the 911 Commission’s inquiries play an integral role…
there’s the thing the investigators CANNOT let happen, they cannot let the administration create self serving dialogue
the cia cannot approve anything, the administration approves methods, if they violate treaties we’ve entered, it’s the administration at fault, not the cia
so the administration is trying to divest themselves of what they themselves directed by making believe the cia “approved” the methods
the president is “washing his hands” becuase he goes by what the cia says but he tells the cia what to approve in the first place
this is like when he shopped for a general that would go along with his position so he could make believe he “listens to the generals”
a childs trick and we cannot fall for it
the cia didn’t approve anything, that was the president that did the approving
period
And those referenced in the ACLU FOIA which the govt was ordered to keep, and any tapes related to Padilla, if there are any, and potentially the tapes referenced in Kennedy’s courthouse. Yes.
My point was that we first learned that CIA had not admitted it had tapes when DOJ told Leonie Brinkema that fact. For some reason, the govt lawyers involved in all the other cases seem to have no concern about making false representations to their judge.
Here’s a thought. I’ll overstate it a bit to make a point:
One of the ways Cheney has kept the CIA in line over the years is by blackmailing them: he knows they’ve tortured, destroyed evidence, etc.
Cheney was angry that the CIA pushed to have the NIE released. In response, he’s been using some of what he has on them. Is that possible? That Cheney is one of the ones pushng this story?
OK freshman QB, local Norman Boy vs Mountaineers, Coach leaving for MI after 1 year of a 4 year contract, and owing $4 million due to a buyout clause in his contract, his contract.
Hmmm, I think I’ll go for the Sooners this year and MI again next.
Also:
Libby’s very important man defense might have gone better if he’d been allowed to talk about the torture turmoil. Maybe it really was distracting!
I’ve been wanting to post this for a while, just for the chuckle:
Got to love that Pixie Dust…It can be interpreted as being a tangible…
True, that would be Bybee/Yoo etal’s OLC that ‘approves’ said methods…
What was on those tapes was evidence relating yto the run up to 9/11, That information had to be so dmaging to the Administration they were destroyed. The logic is the crime revealed on the tapes were more severe than obstruction of justice. Why else would they be destroyed. If the “tapes” are found how would they be id’d as authentic.
State secrets come into play with the evidence that covers all of this supposedly else they would not have gone down this path.
it is noteworthy that bushco is not whining.
Looseheadprops has a different view at FDL. I more see Marcy’s explanation as more cogent. All parties are warning stay out of the investigation no feet on the scale.
Scared me for a second. I was tangentially privy to a lot of high level IBM slang. But for the most part that ended in 1984. So I didn’t borrow it from there…
Impeachment investigations are a more open process. When does that qualify for implementing?
For sure THIS does not fit into our current history, even though it fits the time line. If so, yikes! Then how right you have been about Pixie Dust on multiple levels!
Sorry I posted so O/T. I’ve been wanting to post that for a while now. Thought you would like it!
Open process? wtf. Bunker mentality, meet table. I’m smelling resignations and pardons on this thing.
I did. I’m genetically an IBMer (even went last week to see if I could find the old IBM country club in Endicott NY where I learned to swim). But I’ve stopped following them. So I’m glad you clued me in…
I’m so optimistic.
And still nothing but ***crickets*** is heard from Brinkema, and more importantly, the Moussaoui Defense Attorneys.
Why I wonder is that?
Turley on KO was calling Mukasey’s appointment of Durham as insufficient,and, Durham needs to be given Special Prosecutorial authority…
Question:
Why did Bushco really feel it necessary to resort to “torture” for information?
1. Did they want to coerce information to fit the narrative of their agenda?
2. Did they want information to catch OBL?
How has it benefited them? #1 or #2??? Just wondering?????
EW wrote:
(My Bold)
An addition that I would suggest is this from the AP:
(Again, My Bold)
Things were already cooking by 2003 with the White House
criminal caballawyers.So it makes me wonder why the CIA would be doing a “briefing” in 2004?
It certainly wasn’t to let the WH legal beagles know that the tapes existed because they already knew that in 2003.
And for those who don’t remember, the charter cabal members were Fredo, Miers, Addington and Bellinger.
torture is not to get information, the purpose it’s supposed to serve is instill fear
in this case, the purpose was not only to instill fear in the Iraqi’s, it’s also to instill fear in Americans
where the president claims he can dissapear anyone he wants even american’s we are all left to fear for torture
it does not get information it keeps you from getting information, the purpose is fear
bed for me, g’night all
Yep, that’s the feeling I get. So I’m thinking the “found” tapes may have been found in the IG’s office. And I’m thinking Hayden wasn’t too pleased they had been found. And I also find myself thinking that Helgerson, Kappes, and Sulick are all singing from the same hymnal. Lets see if Hayden gets some religion…
Come on folks, it’s only torture. You are getting riled up like this is something as important as a blowjob.
-G
I don’t think so, there are big shiny arrows all over this story pointing straight at the WH. If there was anyone feeling vindictive towards Bush and Cheney, my vote would go to Rove. But, at this point, I’m with EW, this looks to me like a fierce internal battle at CIA that has managed to spill all over the front page of the papers.
And to buttress the point that the CIA didn’t approve anything, from the NYT back in January 2005:
I put this comment up on yesterday’s thread, but I cannot stop myself from repeating it:
Well, that didn’t work so well, copying didn’t bring over the lovely blockquoting and boldfacing. Let me just call attention to this provision:
In the WaPo story on the Mukasey announcement, Helgerson says this:
“During the coming weeks I anticipate describing fully the actions I and my office took on this matter to investigators from the executive and legislative branches,” Helgerson said in a statement. “It is important to avoid the conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, that surely would arise if I were also involved in the ongoing investigation.”
Is that likely to be public testimony to Congress?
Then we have irrefutable confirmation that Bush and Cheney were involved in war crimes.
The WH weaseling, evasions, and attempts to create distraction suggest that they’re guilty as hell and increasingly afraid.
Meanwhile, Russia is moving in to sign contrracts for Iraq oil resources, some of the oil is now being trucked to Iran, and Turkey is increasingly p*ssed off. More at Iraq Oil Report, and also via klynn’s links, for anyone interested.
I do too. If these “tapes” were ever digitized, I would regard it as a near certainty.
Goldsmith (from his book) says that on the torture tour in October 2003, he saw Hamden via web cam. My guess is that the ‘tapes’ were almost certainly digital tapes. Digitalization would have eased transmission via the internet (or whatever version of the net the military is using now). Maybe the original ‘tapes’ have been destroyed, but I’d bet serious money that copies exist.
Hmmmm. Apparently no one told the Mountaineers how superior Oklahoma and their genius coach Stoops are….
Stoops is the George W Bush of college football.
Holy cat’s pajamas!
Verrrrry interrresting.
Ouch! Actually, I might give Stoops credit for being Jeb, with his even denser brother, Mike (currently driving the “other” university here, Arizona, into the ground) playing the part of George…..
I think copies exist. And don’t you think there is some really juicy evidence held by some of the players?
I’m thinking Rodrigeuz has something like an audio recording of Addington ordering the tapes destruction.
“Now, John, I’m sure you’ve been around Big ‘G’ government long enough to know we’ve all got Daddy’s in this business…”
“What the fuck, Porter?! What The Fuck! You’ve seen the same Tapes I have! What the Fuck!”
“…Bush is my Daddy…”
“Earth to Mr. Goss, Earth to Goss! By every statute of Civilized Human Rights that I know of, that’s T-o-r-t-u-r-e on those Tapes, Porter, and I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 International Tribunal Judges would agree with me!”
“…and I’m your Daddy…”
“I’m talking fucking Torture, Porter! They hang people for that, you know?! No statute of limitations! These Tapes are our Only Fucking Protection for when Bush tries to Blame the Fucking Torture on Us. Can’t you see?!”
“…So, here’s what I want you to do…”
“Porter, dammit! I’m trying to tell you that If you Okay the Destruction of those Tapes, and it gets out - and one of these fucking days you know it will! - Then You will Own the Torture, and All that comes with it. Think about it!”
“…give the Tapes back to Rodriguez…but, not before you make Copies…and ‘lose’ them in your safe.”
Great call, Neil. Mountaineers 48, Sooners 28
Shades of a recent Fiesta Bowl and an Orange Bowl vs USC not too long ago. Why the votes keep going to the Sooners (e.g. - got into the BCS Title game after being blown up in their own Big 12 title game a few years ago) in the polls is just beyond comprehension.
Man, there have to be a lot of people not sleeping too pretty good!
Excellent question. Obviously, he expects to testify somewhere. But if it pertains to his report, I suspect BushCo will make him go behind closed doors.
I’m fascinated, but also confused. Are Helgerson and Rodriguez on the same team, or opposite sides?
You know, as I recall, Leahy and a couple of others were pretty interested and nosing around back when the CIA investigation of Helgerson was first news. I wonder if one of them, or their staffers, hasn’t had some below the radar contact with Helgerson. I am starting to think Helgerson has been a busy little bee, and maybe has had some, also below the radar, help from his friend and colleague Mary McCarthy. There may b e a lot more of this story in the hands of people lining up against the Bushies thatn we realize. The more I think about it, the more I could see Helgerson being, if not the motivating factor, certainly one of the main motivating factors behind a whole lot of what is starting to percolate.
The large shoe in the sky waiting to drop goes like this…
the 9/11 Commission admits it never met the detainees whose alleged testimony comprises much of the chapters that outline the 9/11 plot. The Commission writes the following in a boxed off section of chapter 5:
“Detainee Interrogation Reports
Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al Qaeda members. A number of these “detainees” have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot.
Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses — sworn enemies of the United States — is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting. We were told that our requests might disrupt the sensitive interrogation process.
We have nonetheless decided to include information from captured 9/11 conspirators and al Qaeda members in our report. We have evaluated their statements carefully and have attempted to corroborate them with documents and statements of others. In this report, we indicate where such statements provide the foundation for our narrative. We have been authorized to identify by name only ten detainees whose custody has been confirmed officially by the U.S. government.”
Without these alleged firsthand accounts, the Commission can say very little about the alleged plot. It has “no hard evidence,” only the alleged testimony of alleged terrorists who have been tortured. Who knows if what they are alleged to have said is true?
Insominia has its advantages.
Below, my letter to the New York Times regarding their editorial this morning on the appointment of Dunham:
Brutal but brilliant. Looks like 9/11 commission members knew they were being lied to, and did some CYA.
Quoth the 9/11 Commission:
Very odd phrasing there, and the bolded part is consistent with the theory of remotely recorded & analyzed interrogations. I know the Commission is now claiming they didn’t know at the time that there were recordings, but might they have know about the basic teleconference setup?
if he or cheney has any worry at all, they will invoke executive priviledge
he has mastered this, anything at all close is secret
Isn’t it most interesting why they took it out of EDVA US Atty Office? This is the office prosecuted Moussaoui and Padilla. Suggests some in the office may well have known about the tapes when they denied their existence.
Sorry, EW pointed this out in the prior post.
On another note the EDVA USA is Chuck Rosenberg, Comey’s former Chief of Staff.
Rosenberg was one of the men prepared to resign over the Hospital Signature Mission, perhaps a man of principle.
He was not appointed til 3/06, so after the Tape Destruction, but I suppose he recognizes his office is in deep.
“inteligence reports based on”
the commission based it’s reports on reports of reports
and we still have no idea if these “reports” came from “team b”
team b of course is the devision set up by cheney because the real cia would not say what cheney wrote down for them to say
I really want that point made, that we are giving the fake cia the same credibility as the real cia, the two are mutually exclusive
team b isn’t even a cia at all, they don’t “gather inteligence” they manufacture inteligence, team b needs to be called something besides cia even though cheney want’s them to carry the same credentials
from now on I would like democrats to use “the propaganda team set up by cheney”, not “the cia”
CRAP. I did NOT want to buy Goldsmith’s book, but now it looks like I might have to.
Webcam.
Jeebus, exactly who viewed detainees by webcam?
Were all webcam transmissions live, or tape delayed from location?
What was the earliest use of webcam?
If the HVD program was “… a very structured, very rigorous programme,” where are the instructions for webcam usage?
Where are all the communications that document webcam transmissions?
I wish it was clearer to us whether this investigation announced by Mukasey was a real effort to get to the truth, or a method by which they will keep Congress at bay (”can’t discuss this as it is under investigation”). Will the apparent thoroughness of the investigator appointed tie up all the evidence, so that we can’t get answers before the election?
I suspect they’re on opposite teams. In fact, I suspect there are three teams: Herlgerson and McCarthy, who opposed teh torture and were trying to expose it, Kappes and Sulick, who didn’t oppose the torture but who also believed in doing the right thing wrt the tapes, and Rodriguez and (I still am convinced) Porter Goss, who didn’t oppose the torture but were convinced they needed to obstruct justice to protect the DO guys who did it.
That’s a wildarsed-guess, but that’s my suspicion.
I think Rosenberg is one of the good people in DOJ. I also think, just on the basis of having mis-directed Brinkema on the tapes (telling her no tapes of the detainees she believed Moussaoui shoudl have) is grounds for recusal. They were made to look pretty shitty by CIA (either with or without knowledge), so they can’t be expected to do a fair investigation.
Though of course, Mukasey has just as strong a reason to recuse, but he’s not doing it…
Don’t forget–my torture timeline includes a slew of photography related rules pertaining to HVDs. We’ve already got the outline of the regulations pertaining to photography which were (as I’ve pointed out before) being changed in highly charged environment when the tapes were destroyed in 2005.
Yes, exactly…which means they must have made the same kinds of changes in regs for video.
There’s an entire line of questioning from which we have been diverted by the chase for tapes.