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	<title>Comments on: Lying to Congress before the Torture Tapes</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/</link>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41049</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Totally agree.  Brought (Litvinenko) this up at the Lake about a month ago and many responses just thought the connection was crazy! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;EW,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I imagine you read Raw Story’s piece on J Kos?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Sovietera_compound_in_Poland_was_site_0307.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0307.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree.  Brought (Litvinenko) this up at the Lake about a month ago and many responses just thought the connection was crazy! </p>
<p>EW,</p>
<p>I imagine you read Raw Story’s piece on J Kos?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Sovietera_compound_in_Poland_was_site_0307.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rawstory.com/news/2&#8230;.._0307.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41045</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why not?  The Poles are cheap, dirt cheap.  In some cases, lower cost than Indians — like engineers for example.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;klynn (75) — yes, the 1999 stuff is no surprise, fits in the time frame when DeadEye was running Halliburton, and during &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040112/ireland&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;timeframe in which “retrocommissions” were being paid for Nigerian businesses&lt;/a&gt;.  He’s been at this for quite a while, and he’s filthy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is one thing that most Americans have not wrapped their heads around, besides the fact we are engaged in a global energy war; the war finds the goal is not merely oil reserves, but natural gas.  Gas is on par with petroleum in its strategic value; it has shaped a considerable amount of Cheney’s actions, along with those of Russia’s Putin.  The poisoning of Litvinenko, the first “nuclear attack”, may well have been an attack against those attempting to manipulate Russia’s natural gas reserves and market, and may also have been sloppily performed because the goal was not merely removal of a critic, but a warning to someone.  Ahem.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The stakes are so high in this game of multinational, multi-level chess, that torture is nothing, a trifle.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not?  The Poles are cheap, dirt cheap.  In some cases, lower cost than Indians — like engineers for example.   </p>
<p>klynn (75) — yes, the 1999 stuff is no surprise, fits in the time frame when DeadEye was running Halliburton, and during <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040112/ireland" rel="nofollow">timeframe in which “retrocommissions” were being paid for Nigerian businesses</a>.  He’s been at this for quite a while, and he’s filthy.</p>
<p>There is one thing that most Americans have not wrapped their heads around, besides the fact we are engaged in a global energy war; the war finds the goal is not merely oil reserves, but natural gas.  Gas is on par with petroleum in its strategic value; it has shaped a considerable amount of Cheney’s actions, along with those of Russia’s Putin.  The poisoning of Litvinenko, the first “nuclear attack”, may well have been an attack against those attempting to manipulate Russia’s natural gas reserves and market, and may also have been sloppily performed because the goal was not merely removal of a critic, but a warning to someone.  Ahem.  </p>
<p>The stakes are so high in this game of multinational, multi-level chess, that torture is nothing, a trifle.</p>
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		<title>By: brendanx</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41043</link>
		<dc:creator>brendanx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;We’ve used Poland as an intermediary in Iraq several times in the past.  A lot of Baghdad was probably built by Poles.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I read Polish (with your Czech, you could probably read it, too), and it’s been pretty disgraceful how their press (bought, I presume) offers nary a peep about this story, particularly those fine dissidents at Gazeta Wyborcza (many of whom are signatories to various PNAC documents).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have a feeling the Post’s Craig Whitlock is working on this story.  He has had bylines in Poland this year (elections, etc.).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We’ve used Poland as an intermediary in Iraq several times in the past.  A lot of Baghdad was probably built by Poles.</p>
<p>I read Polish (with your Czech, you could probably read it, too), and it’s been pretty disgraceful how their press (bought, I presume) offers nary a peep about this story, particularly those fine dissidents at Gazeta Wyborcza (many of whom are signatories to various PNAC documents).  </p>
<p>I have a feeling the Post’s Craig Whitlock is working on this story.  He has had bylines in Poland this year (elections, etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41042</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;One of the most fascinating parts of the COE report I’ve read so far is the story of Jerzy Kos, who was in charge of the airport we brought the HVDs into Poland through, and then was in charge of a construction company doing business in Iraq. He was taken hostage by insurgents alleging he had ties to the CIA (uh huh) and we went in gangbusters to rescue him. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So we’ve got (or had) a Polish construction magnate doing intell work in Iraq for us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most fascinating parts of the COE report I’ve read so far is the story of Jerzy Kos, who was in charge of the airport we brought the HVDs into Poland through, and then was in charge of a construction company doing business in Iraq. He was taken hostage by insurgents alleging he had ties to the CIA (uh huh) and we went in gangbusters to rescue him. </p>
<p>So we’ve got (or had) a Polish construction magnate doing intell work in Iraq for us.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41041</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;In Prodi’s case, I think it’s self-defense. Sismi is loaded to the gills with people friendly to the nasty side of CIA. So by allowing the investigation, you undercut that side of Sismi.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Prodi’s case, I think it’s self-defense. Sismi is loaded to the gills with people friendly to the nasty side of CIA. So by allowing the investigation, you undercut that side of Sismi.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41038</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you going back to 1999 in terms of Poland?  Cheney made some interesting overtures in 1999 that go back to the start of the war…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Essentially, the realignment of the Cold War with oil as the “arms” race…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&amp;aid=3408&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.globalresearch.ca/i.....8;aid=3408&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cheney was establishing boundaries for Iraq before 9-11, as we all know too well…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rayne,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s his 1999 speech at the Institute of Petroleum in London. It’s a “WOW” in terms of everything we have experienced as a country…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It may redefine this whole picture if you have not read it…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.energybulletin.net/559.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.energybulletin.net/559.html&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m not too sure he would firewall off business. If he needed something to negotiate with, he would. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agreed on Sibel Edmonds.  Agreed on staying with one thread context. Unfortunately, the more one researches the black prisons, the more the issues overlap. It cannot be helped at times…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you going back to 1999 in terms of Poland?  Cheney made some interesting overtures in 1999 that go back to the start of the war…</p>
<p>Essentially, the realignment of the Cold War with oil as the “arms” race…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&amp;aid=3408" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalresearch.ca/i&#8230;..8;aid=3408</a></p>
<p>Cheney was establishing boundaries for Iraq before 9-11, as we all know too well…</p>
<p>Rayne,</p>
<p>Here’s his 1999 speech at the Institute of Petroleum in London. It’s a “WOW” in terms of everything we have experienced as a country…</p>
<p>It may redefine this whole picture if you have not read it…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.energybulletin.net/559.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.energybulletin.net/559.html</a>  </p>
<p>I’m not too sure he would firewall off business. If he needed something to negotiate with, he would. </p>
<p>Agreed on Sibel Edmonds.  Agreed on staying with one thread context. Unfortunately, the more one researches the black prisons, the more the issues overlap. It cannot be helped at times…</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41037</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;EW asks,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;(though who’s going to complain? England? Germany? Italy? All complicit)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Romano Prodi was the chair of EC through 30-OCT-04; took office as Italy’s PM in May 2006.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6276225.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Prodi is alleged to be “Putin’s boy”&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Panorama has also obtained a document classified as Top Secret by the Italian government in which Litvinenko accuses Romano Prodi, Italy’s prime minister and former president of the European Commission, of being a friend of the KGB.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Before his death Litvinenko collaborated with Scaramella on his KGB mole-hunt in Italy, feeding him with highly sensitive information on KGB operations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Scaramella tells Panorama that Litvinenko was warned off defecting to Italy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He said: “His idea when he left Moscow was to arrive in Italy and he mentioned a friend, a colleague in the secret service who told him that you cannot go to Italy because there are some big friends of Russia in this country.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But Italy, you’ll note, is the one EC/EU country which has been investigating and prosecuting the CIA (stupid users of cellphones) in regards to rendition.  Why’d they break the mold, in spite of their likely complicity?  Why was Prodi not in a position to do something as EC chair, but is now allowing the investigation/prosecution of CIA to go forward as PM d’Italia?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EW asks,
</p>
<blockquote><p>(though who’s going to complain? England? Germany? Italy? All complicit)</p></blockquote>
<p>Romano Prodi was the chair of EC through 30-OCT-04; took office as Italy’s PM in May 2006.  <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6276225.stm" rel="nofollow">Prodi is alleged to be “Putin’s boy”</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Panorama has also obtained a document classified as Top Secret by the Italian government in which Litvinenko accuses Romano Prodi, Italy’s prime minister and former president of the European Commission, of being a friend of the KGB.</p>
<p>Before his death Litvinenko collaborated with Scaramella on his KGB mole-hunt in Italy, feeding him with highly sensitive information on KGB operations.</p>
<p>Scaramella tells Panorama that Litvinenko was warned off defecting to Italy.</p>
<p>He said: “His idea when he left Moscow was to arrive in Italy and he mentioned a friend, a colleague in the secret service who told him that you cannot go to Italy because there are some big friends of Russia in this country.” </p>
</blockquote>
<p>But Italy, you’ll note, is the one EC/EU country which has been investigating and prosecuting the CIA (stupid users of cellphones) in regards to rendition.  Why’d they break the mold, in spite of their likely complicity?  Why was Prodi not in a position to do something as EC chair, but is now allowing the investigation/prosecution of CIA to go forward as PM d’Italia?</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41036</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Could be…but we’ve been up to our eyeballs in a new cold war, a global energy war, and some of what we are seeing related to energy is more closely aligned with that “warfare” than with the black sites.  Cheney could have tried to implement two-fers, accruing benefits to Halliburton while furthering use of black sites, but I have a suspicion he’d try to firewall off business.  Remember he’s already had a close call in re: corruption charges about Nigerian business deals, related to his role at Halliburtion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atlargely.com/2006/12/global_energy_w.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Larisa has already poked around about this in the past&lt;/a&gt;; there’s a possibility that the outing not only of Plame but Brewster &amp; Jennings was a facet of this global energy war.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All this gets too far afield, easier to stay focused on the single loose thread and keep pulling on it until we have the entire skein and a specific person missing a sweater.  If only Sibel Edmonds was able to speak freely on the record; she says it’s ALL connected.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could be…but we’ve been up to our eyeballs in a new cold war, a global energy war, and some of what we are seeing related to energy is more closely aligned with that “warfare” than with the black sites.  Cheney could have tried to implement two-fers, accruing benefits to Halliburton while furthering use of black sites, but I have a suspicion he’d try to firewall off business.  Remember he’s already had a close call in re: corruption charges about Nigerian business deals, related to his role at Halliburtion.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.atlargely.com/2006/12/global_energy_w.html" rel="nofollow">Larisa has already poked around about this in the past</a>; there’s a possibility that the outing not only of Plame but Brewster &amp; Jennings was a facet of this global energy war.</p>
<p>All this gets too far afield, easier to stay focused on the single loose thread and keep pulling on it until we have the entire skein and a specific person missing a sweater.  If only Sibel Edmonds was able to speak freely on the record; she says it’s ALL connected.</p>
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		<title>By: phred</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41035</link>
		<dc:creator>phred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;(though who’s going to complain? England? Germany? Italy? All complicit)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s the thing, if the Wikipedia entry is correct, individuals have standing to pursue charges if Article 3 of the ECHR is violated, not just states as is the case here in the US or under the Geneva Conventions as I understand it.  If the EU was having trouble ratifying the Constitution, I don’t think it would have taken much (from a 2005 perspective) for a public outcry to derail things for Romania (or cause trouble for Poland — despite all appearances, I am keeping an open mind here ; )&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>(though who’s going to complain? England? Germany? Italy? All complicit)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s the thing, if the Wikipedia entry is correct, individuals have standing to pursue charges if Article 3 of the ECHR is violated, not just states as is the case here in the US or under the Geneva Conventions as I understand it.  If the EU was having trouble ratifying the Constitution, I don’t think it would have taken much (from a 2005 perspective) for a public outcry to derail things for Romania (or cause trouble for Poland — despite all appearances, I am keeping an open mind here ; )</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41034</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/30/lying-to-congress-before-the-torture-tapes/#comment-41034</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Which does explain why France was the country who made a fuss about one of the two (if not both countries Poland and Romania) joining the EU.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wonder whether NATO provides much data, though, given its complicity.  I’m sure if anybody has it, you’ll be the one to publish it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In re: the plane N379P cited above — I don’t think I mentioned clearly that the AI report only showed one (1) flight to Thailand, into Bangkok.  Wonder whether specific records were transported by hand over commercial flights…leaning more towards Poland, as a temporary facility, with Camp Bondsteel being a more likely ultimate destination since it’s a black hole.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which does explain why France was the country who made a fuss about one of the two (if not both countries Poland and Romania) joining the EU.  </p>
<p>I wonder whether NATO provides much data, though, given its complicity.  I’m sure if anybody has it, you’ll be the one to publish it.</p>
<p>In re: the plane N379P cited above — I don’t think I mentioned clearly that the AI report only showed one (1) flight to Thailand, into Bangkok.  Wonder whether specific records were transported by hand over commercial flights…leaning more towards Poland, as a temporary facility, with Camp Bondsteel being a more likely ultimate destination since it’s a black hole.</p>
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