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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Other&#8221; Provision Of The Records Act</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/</link>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40488</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40488</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nevermind, maybe it was…I’m just realizing this was back on the 26th…don’t know how I got “here” on the 27th.  *g*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevermind, maybe it was…I’m just realizing this was back on the 26th…don’t know how I got “here” on the 27th.  *g*</p>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40487</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mods?  LS @ 145 is not me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mods?  LS @ 145 is not me.</p>
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		<title>By: JodiDog</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40446</link>
		<dc:creator>JodiDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40446</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, let me beat the kettle one more time though I don’t expect to change many minds.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.  Over on TNH, I was one person and was the only one posting as JODI except for one incident that I know about about, maybe 4 or 5 months ago or even longer.  I made a remark about it at the time, and it stopped at least on the threads I followed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2.  A few weeks before emptywheel moved, someone started posting under my name at TNH relatively frequently.  I remarked about it every time I saw it.  The person attempted to sound (on the issues) like me, and was close most of the time, but of course I could see the differences, of expression, etc.  I believe that that person or someone who had picked up on what was going on came over here and grabbed the ID Jodi.  I remarked about it, and changed to JodiDog which I now kind of like.  Sort of a play on Bluedog, and Reddog, I think.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3.  I am the Jodi with the conservative military family.  My father career doctor, older brother who is a combat commander and is still over there, a second brother who also was a doctor but only was touched by Aghanistan and he is out now, a mother who was a military nurse when she met my father.  Senator McCain has been to my parents house though I wasn’t there.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4.  I have the grandmother in SC and actually met Senator Lindsay Graham there at her house.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 3 and 4, you can see where my basic political roots were nurtured.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;5.  I played BB in HS and College but instead of becoming a BB coach and science teacher in HS or College as I had planned as a young girl, when I found out my knee could no longer handle BB, and that I was really much better at science, physics, math, etc.,  I went on to get a few degrees including one up near where I directed emptywheel’s friend to a Beamish Stout watering hole.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;6.  My first vote for President was in 2000 for Bush(43) who appeared to be much more real, conservative, and sensible than Gore.  Bush might have been a good President except that 911 came along, and he seemed to get the idea that he was playing his HS sports again with all the glory and fun.  And that he would win everytime.  That is a good idea in HS but not in WAR.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;7.  I didn’t see the reason to hurry up to Iraq though my brother and father explained to me the practical military parameters, though none of us had a good feeling about it.&lt;br /&gt;
I do think that the intentions were good. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;8.  After we essentially won the battle at the 4 week mark, we then exposed all the weaknesses, stupidity and self dealing of the Bush Administration.&lt;br /&gt;
For that I wish that at least an attempt to Impeach Bush would be made.&lt;br /&gt;
I would like that to be one of his “Legacy” highlights.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;9.  Anyway, my grandmom and I are going shopping again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;10. Let us all hope for a better New Year.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jodi, visiting SC.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let me beat the kettle one more time though I don’t expect to change many minds.</p>
<p>1.  Over on TNH, I was one person and was the only one posting as JODI except for one incident that I know about about, maybe 4 or 5 months ago or even longer.  I made a remark about it at the time, and it stopped at least on the threads I followed.</p>
<p>2.  A few weeks before emptywheel moved, someone started posting under my name at TNH relatively frequently.  I remarked about it every time I saw it.  The person attempted to sound (on the issues) like me, and was close most of the time, but of course I could see the differences, of expression, etc.  I believe that that person or someone who had picked up on what was going on came over here and grabbed the ID Jodi.  I remarked about it, and changed to JodiDog which I now kind of like.  Sort of a play on Bluedog, and Reddog, I think.</p>
<p>3.  I am the Jodi with the conservative military family.  My father career doctor, older brother who is a combat commander and is still over there, a second brother who also was a doctor but only was touched by Aghanistan and he is out now, a mother who was a military nurse when she met my father.  Senator McCain has been to my parents house though I wasn’t there.  </p>
<p>4.  I have the grandmother in SC and actually met Senator Lindsay Graham there at her house.</p>
<p>From 3 and 4, you can see where my basic political roots were nurtured.</p>
<p>5.  I played BB in HS and College but instead of becoming a BB coach and science teacher in HS or College as I had planned as a young girl, when I found out my knee could no longer handle BB, and that I was really much better at science, physics, math, etc.,  I went on to get a few degrees including one up near where I directed emptywheel’s friend to a Beamish Stout watering hole.</p>
<p>6.  My first vote for President was in 2000 for Bush(43) who appeared to be much more real, conservative, and sensible than Gore.  Bush might have been a good President except that 911 came along, and he seemed to get the idea that he was playing his HS sports again with all the glory and fun.  And that he would win everytime.  That is a good idea in HS but not in WAR.</p>
<p>7.  I didn’t see the reason to hurry up to Iraq though my brother and father explained to me the practical military parameters, though none of us had a good feeling about it.<br />
I do think that the intentions were good. </p>
<p>8.  After we essentially won the battle at the 4 week mark, we then exposed all the weaknesses, stupidity and self dealing of the Bush Administration.<br />
For that I wish that at least an attempt to Impeach Bush would be made.<br />
I would like that to be one of his “Legacy” highlights.</p>
<p>9.  Anyway, my grandmom and I are going shopping again.</p>
<p>10. Let us all hope for a better New Year.</p>
<p>Jodi, visiting SC.</p>
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		<title>By: KucinichOnly</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40425</link>
		<dc:creator>KucinichOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40425</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Was the mystery poster Thomas Tamm?  The postings stopped just after he was visited by the FBI in a photo and article in Newsweek - no followup on that story either.  Someone mentioned on a mystery poster thread on DU about internet transmissions of digital information, the person seemed to be guessing and referring to possible video conferences that might have been captured and sent to EU where MM said that the auditing info about the emails had been sent and war crimes trials were being prepared there. MM mentioned what sounded like kidnapping of US whistleblowers as they went to their cars in the morning and something about endangering children.  Are there US citizens being held against their will, uncharged possibly tortured as Padilla was but unlike Padilla the media was not informed.  How many whistleblowers have been murdered or are in custody possibly being tortured.  Did anyone ever follow up on the Katrina victims who were tricked into getting on planes and flown to different states some of them imprisoned without access to the media on closed military bases one in Colorado as reported by the Denver Post and another base more remote in Utah.  That story just disappeared off the radar. We need a real media to do followup investigative reporting.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I admire the dedicated people who use their expertise in the law to educate the concerned citizens on the internet but we have to find someway to get an honest investigative media.  I hope that the military brass and intelligence services are able to do something because it does not seem that there is anyone to enforce the law.  It sounds like kennedy and another judge were threatened and recanted their rulings requiring bush to provide the torture tape and other evidence.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;LibertyForum.com and goldismoney.com have discussions on a certain foreign country that seems to have taken over ours.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was the mystery poster Thomas Tamm?  The postings stopped just after he was visited by the FBI in a photo and article in Newsweek &#8211; no followup on that story either.  Someone mentioned on a mystery poster thread on DU about internet transmissions of digital information, the person seemed to be guessing and referring to possible video conferences that might have been captured and sent to EU where MM said that the auditing info about the emails had been sent and war crimes trials were being prepared there. MM mentioned what sounded like kidnapping of US whistleblowers as they went to their cars in the morning and something about endangering children.  Are there US citizens being held against their will, uncharged possibly tortured as Padilla was but unlike Padilla the media was not informed.  How many whistleblowers have been murdered or are in custody possibly being tortured.  Did anyone ever follow up on the Katrina victims who were tricked into getting on planes and flown to different states some of them imprisoned without access to the media on closed military bases one in Colorado as reported by the Denver Post and another base more remote in Utah.  That story just disappeared off the radar. We need a real media to do followup investigative reporting.</p>
<p>I admire the dedicated people who use their expertise in the law to educate the concerned citizens on the internet but we have to find someway to get an honest investigative media.  I hope that the military brass and intelligence services are able to do something because it does not seem that there is anyone to enforce the law.  It sounds like kennedy and another judge were threatened and recanted their rulings requiring bush to provide the torture tape and other evidence.</p>
<p>LibertyForum.com and goldismoney.com have discussions on a certain foreign country that seems to have taken over ours.</p>
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		<title>By: KucinichOnly</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40422</link>
		<dc:creator>KucinichOnly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40422</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Been following EW since her excellent kos series on shooter and swiss miss.  i remember the old jodi and does seem like more than one person.  the putdowns would be ok and alert people new to the threads but the ss word is distracting.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Been following afterdowningstreet and if we were all so focused on the boring but necessary details of continuing to push for impeachment by state AGs as the mystery poster also recommended we might accomplish the downfall of these monsters.  What whistleblowers have died other than the two honest women AGs in the medical supplier case.  Please write your Congressperson and the media about Gov. Don Siegelman, please write to him too, why was he not allowed on 60 minutes and it does not seem that he has gotten any protection from Conyers’ hearing back in sept/oct.  Mr. Siegelman sent note to please write to conyers to hold hearings, that was about two weeks ago.  Need followup on this important political prisoner case on the  left blogs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/kucinich-%91comes-closest-to-embodying-the-ideals%92-of-the-nation/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dennis4president.co.....he-nation/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080107/editors&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080107/editors&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In his stands on the issues, Dennis Kucinich comes closest to embodying the ideals of this magazine. He has been a forceful critic of the Bush Administration, opposing the Patriot Act and spearheading the motion to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney. He is the only candidate to have voted against the Iraq War in 2003 and has voted against funding it ever since. Of all the serious candidates, only he and Governor Bill Richardson propose a full and immediate withdrawal from Iraq. And only Kucinich’s plan sets aside funds for reparations. Moreover, Kucinich has used his presidential campaigns to champion issues like cutting the military budget and abolishing nuclear weapons; universal, single-payer healthcare; campaign finance reform; same-sex marriage and an end to the death penalty and the war on drugs. A vote for him would be a principled one.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been following EW since her excellent kos series on shooter and swiss miss.  i remember the old jodi and does seem like more than one person.  the putdowns would be ok and alert people new to the threads but the ss word is distracting.</p>
<p>Been following afterdowningstreet and if we were all so focused on the boring but necessary details of continuing to push for impeachment by state AGs as the mystery poster also recommended we might accomplish the downfall of these monsters.  What whistleblowers have died other than the two honest women AGs in the medical supplier case.  Please write your Congressperson and the media about Gov. Don Siegelman, please write to him too, why was he not allowed on 60 minutes and it does not seem that he has gotten any protection from Conyers’ hearing back in sept/oct.  Mr. Siegelman sent note to please write to conyers to hold hearings, that was about two weeks ago.  Need followup on this important political prisoner case on the  left blogs.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/kucinich-%91comes-closest-to-embodying-the-ideals%92-of-the-nation/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dennis4president.co&#8230;..he-nation/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080107/editors" rel="nofollow">http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080107/editors</a></p>
<p>In his stands on the issues, Dennis Kucinich comes closest to embodying the ideals of this magazine. He has been a forceful critic of the Bush Administration, opposing the Patriot Act and spearheading the motion to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney. He is the only candidate to have voted against the Iraq War in 2003 and has voted against funding it ever since. Of all the serious candidates, only he and Governor Bill Richardson propose a full and immediate withdrawal from Iraq. And only Kucinich’s plan sets aside funds for reparations. Moreover, Kucinich has used his presidential campaigns to champion issues like cutting the military budget and abolishing nuclear weapons; universal, single-payer healthcare; campaign finance reform; same-sex marriage and an end to the death penalty and the war on drugs. A vote for him would be a principled one.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40408</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sure, that’s all possible.  But it is also possible that the Miers leak was designed to throw attention onto the White House without overly antagonizing Addington, for example.  It may also have come from source(s) with access to some information and not others.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The point remains, it’s way way too soon to speak so confidently about the administration doing this and doing that when it seems quite clear that CIA had a significant role, and perhaps even the pivotal role.  And if it makes sense that it happened under the watch of Goss who was basically a servant of the White House installed to wipe out Agency subversion of the White House (from the White House’s point of view), that is obviously not enough to explain how it happened, since Goss has been in office for over a year when the destruction happened.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And again, the question of passivity &lt;i&gt;may&lt;/i&gt; indeed be the wrong question.  But it may not - and all I was saying is that this post jumps way too quickly past the may to unequivocally talking about this, that and the other thing the administration did, when it remains far from clear just what the administration did.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, that’s all possible.  But it is also possible that the Miers leak was designed to throw attention onto the White House without overly antagonizing Addington, for example.  It may also have come from source(s) with access to some information and not others.</p>
<p>The point remains, it’s way way too soon to speak so confidently about the administration doing this and doing that when it seems quite clear that CIA had a significant role, and perhaps even the pivotal role.  And if it makes sense that it happened under the watch of Goss who was basically a servant of the White House installed to wipe out Agency subversion of the White House (from the White House’s point of view), that is obviously not enough to explain how it happened, since Goss has been in office for over a year when the destruction happened.</p>
<p>And again, the question of passivity <i>may</i> indeed be the wrong question.  But it may not &#8211; and all I was saying is that this post jumps way too quickly past the may to unequivocally talking about this, that and the other thing the administration did, when it remains far from clear just what the administration did.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40402</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40402</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the case of Miers, no, not at all. You leak the Miers bit to either skew the timing of discussions (hiding those that took place in 2003 and 2004) or you do so to hide the involvement of GOnzales and Addington. That’s true regardless of who it is. Plus, one of those leaks came from the WH, at least given how the reporters responded to the WH pushback.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Keep in mind, too, that the question of passivity or not may be the wrong question. The exposure of the CIA may have set off a real argument, particularly involving Addington (who was the only one who never recanted the Bybee Memo).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the case of Miers, no, not at all. You leak the Miers bit to either skew the timing of discussions (hiding those that took place in 2003 and 2004) or you do so to hide the involvement of GOnzales and Addington. That’s true regardless of who it is. Plus, one of those leaks came from the WH, at least given how the reporters responded to the WH pushback.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, too, that the question of passivity or not may be the wrong question. The exposure of the CIA may have set off a real argument, particularly involving Addington (who was the only one who never recanted the Bybee Memo).</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40400</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40400</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;leveymg&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is one scenario on timing. But the documents that have come out so far have claimed the torture didn’t start until after August, when they got their Bybee Memo. If it indeed started in April, then that would explain the Zubaydah tape destruction, by itself, bc it would be evidence that the CIA was torturing without legal basis. That wouldn’t explain the al-Nashiri destruction, who was captured after the Bybee memo.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>leveymg</p>
<p>That is one scenario on timing. But the documents that have come out so far have claimed the torture didn’t start until after August, when they got their Bybee Memo. If it indeed started in April, then that would explain the Zubaydah tape destruction, by itself, bc it would be evidence that the CIA was torturing without legal basis. That wouldn’t explain the al-Nashiri destruction, who was captured after the Bybee memo.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40395</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40395</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;but I do capitalize and punctuate artfully&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;honest I really do&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;(is this cuz I don’t make those “smily face” thingys or something ???)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and as to the cursing, you prolly jes don like my style, thas all&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I ain’t original. I usually say the obvious things that nobody else says (I spend most of my time here absorbing the data without any relevant topical offerings of my own cuz I don’t have the experience or expertise to add much to the discussions around here) I’m not a lawyer, I’m a defendant mostly&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and I ain’t an artist anyway, I’m a glorified type setter&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(wink)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but I do capitalize and punctuate artfully</p>
<p>honest I really do</p>
<p><em>(is this cuz I don’t make those “smily face” thingys or something ???)</em></p>
<p>and as to the cursing, you prolly jes don like my style, thas all</p>
<p>I ain’t original. I usually say the obvious things that nobody else says (I spend most of my time here absorbing the data without any relevant topical offerings of my own cuz I don’t have the experience or expertise to add much to the discussions around here) I’m not a lawyer, I’m a defendant mostly</p>
<p>and I ain’t an artist anyway, I’m a glorified type setter</p>
<p>(wink)</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/comment-page-2/#comment-40392</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/25/the-other-provision-of-the-records-act/#comment-40392</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hasn’t made mangoes any less expensive at the market here.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I figure the Indian deal was primarily designed to keep Musharraf in check since he can’t account for the whereabouts of 10 billion plus he’d been paid.  But these jokers in office are so damned sloppy they use a hammer where a subtle push will do, causing similar corresponding overreaction.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hasn’t made mangoes any less expensive at the market here.   </p>
<p>I figure the Indian deal was primarily designed to keep Musharraf in check since he can’t account for the whereabouts of 10 billion plus he’d been paid.  But these jokers in office are so damned sloppy they use a hammer where a subtle push will do, causing similar corresponding overreaction.</p>
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