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	<title>Comments on: Executive Privilege</title>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-40127</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 19:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;ew,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Edwards has said that he intends to use every available power of the Presidency to accomplish his goals. The way I read him, if he says he won’t do it, that means he doesn’t think it’s legal. I could be wrong, but I’ve seen him up close and that’s my read.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ew,</p>
<p>Edwards has said that he intends to use every available power of the Presidency to accomplish his goals. The way I read him, if he says he won’t do it, that means he doesn’t think it’s legal. I could be wrong, but I’ve seen him up close and that’s my read.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-40019</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fair enough point. But I guess if you’re worried about executive power, you can’t support whose measure of the proper limits of executive power are the personal. That’s pretty much the point I was trying to make.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough point. But I guess if you’re worried about executive power, you can’t support whose measure of the proper limits of executive power are the personal. That’s pretty much the point I was trying to make.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39995</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The links for the paragraph, above, at thread comment 18.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/fielding-08-07/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Leahy August 8, 2007 letter to Fielding&lt;/a&gt; extending deadline for production of documents in wiretap matter.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200708/07-08-20%20vp%20letter.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coffin’s August 20, 2007 letter to Leahy&lt;/a&gt; escalating Cheney’s rhetoric about having no need to produce documents in the same matter.  The Hill reports &lt;a href=&quot;http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/white-house-lets-leahys-deadline-pass-2007-08-20.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Leahy’s truculent verbal response to Coffin’s elegantese&lt;/a&gt; from the foregoing letter.  Savage’s academic sidekick &lt;a href=&quot;http://unitaryexec.blogspot.com/2007/12/rhetorical-signing-statements-in-action.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kelley writes this week a one paragraph tally of the number of constitutional-law-based challenges Bush has produced from 2006-2007&lt;/a&gt;; though you find it toward the end of that post in its 17th paragraph, which begins, &lt; &lt;Thus far for 2007, President Bush&#039;s rhetorical signing statements are nearly even to the total number of rhetorical statements issued in 2006. In 2006, he issued a total of nine rhetorical signing statements, and to date, for 2007, he has issued a total of eight. Where the big difference so far is in the constitutional challenges. In 2006, President Bush issued a total of 24 constitutional signing statements with a total of 243 distinct challenges. In 2007, he has one constitutional signing statement with a total of 11 challenges.&gt;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2007/11/1/cheney-lawyer-is-leaving.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coffin&lt;/a&gt; announcements are in &lt;a href=&quot;http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2007/11/escaping-from-a.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these&lt;/a&gt;… &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?progID=416&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;links&lt;/a&gt;; the last is interesting for its juxtaposition of photographs of Lucy Dalglish and Shannen Coffin from 2003.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The links for the paragraph, above, at thread comment 18.  <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/fielding-08-07/" rel="nofollow">Leahy August 8, 2007 letter to Fielding</a> extending deadline for production of documents in wiretap matter.  <a href="http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200708/07-08-20%20vp%20letter.pdf" rel="nofollow">Coffin’s August 20, 2007 letter to Leahy</a> escalating Cheney’s rhetoric about having no need to produce documents in the same matter.  The Hill reports <a href="http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/white-house-lets-leahys-deadline-pass-2007-08-20.html" rel="nofollow">Leahy’s truculent verbal response to Coffin’s elegantese</a> from the foregoing letter.  Savage’s academic sidekick <a href="http://unitaryexec.blogspot.com/2007/12/rhetorical-signing-statements-in-action.html" rel="nofollow">Kelley writes this week a one paragraph tally of the number of constitutional-law-based challenges Bush has produced from 2006-2007</a>; though you find it toward the end of that post in its 17th paragraph, which begins, &lt; &lt;Thus far for 2007, President Bush&#8217;s rhetorical signing statements are nearly even to the total number of rhetorical statements issued in 2006. In 2006, he issued a total of nine rhetorical signing statements, and to date, for 2007, he has issued a total of eight. Where the big difference so far is in the constitutional challenges. In 2006, President Bush issued a total of 24 constitutional signing statements with a total of 243 distinct challenges. In 2007, he has one constitutional signing statement with a total of 11 challenges.&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2007/11/1/cheney-lawyer-is-leaving.html" rel="nofollow">Coffin</a> announcements are in <a href="http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2007/11/escaping-from-a.html" rel="nofollow">these</a>… <a href="http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?progID=416" rel="nofollow">links</a>; the last is interesting for its juxtaposition of photographs of Lucy Dalglish and Shannen Coffin from 2003.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnLopresti</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39992</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnLopresti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am glad Savage the Pulitzer winning journalist is pursuing the topic which won his articles on signing statements that prize, now with the candidates in the early primary elections.  I share the instinct to trust a little more than before in the trial lawyer’s remarks, though I continue to fret about his trade policy, given his roots in a protectionist geopolitical zone.  I agree there seems to be a tenor of oligarchism in one candidate’s reply, but I think her work once elected would be less riddled with casuistry than the current Republican adinistration’s TX-style overly dismissive solution to most public relations problems.  One of the problems Bush2 has encountered, in my estimation, is the shallowness of his bench.  It has taken contortions like Shannen W. Coffin’s parsimonious August 2007 reply to Leahy’s subpoena to preserve Cheney from the fray.  There could be a more collegial way to govern, without inventing a nonBranch.  Having worked closely with executives and administrative law attorneys, I respect the modicum of confidentiality required to create a style of governance; but, of all offices, the presidency should have the most daylight, so the public shares what is their democracy based right to understand their government.  For the curious, Coffin has signed to do a business and consulting practice at Steptoe, once the holiday season tapers, next month.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad Savage the Pulitzer winning journalist is pursuing the topic which won his articles on signing statements that prize, now with the candidates in the early primary elections.  I share the instinct to trust a little more than before in the trial lawyer’s remarks, though I continue to fret about his trade policy, given his roots in a protectionist geopolitical zone.  I agree there seems to be a tenor of oligarchism in one candidate’s reply, but I think her work once elected would be less riddled with casuistry than the current Republican adinistration’s TX-style overly dismissive solution to most public relations problems.  One of the problems Bush2 has encountered, in my estimation, is the shallowness of his bench.  It has taken contortions like Shannen W. Coffin’s parsimonious August 2007 reply to Leahy’s subpoena to preserve Cheney from the fray.  There could be a more collegial way to govern, without inventing a nonBranch.  Having worked closely with executives and administrative law attorneys, I respect the modicum of confidentiality required to create a style of governance; but, of all offices, the presidency should have the most daylight, so the public shares what is their democracy based right to understand their government.  For the curious, Coffin has signed to do a business and consulting practice at Steptoe, once the holiday season tapers, next month.</p>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39979</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/#comment-39979</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[Full Disclosure: I strongly support John Edwards for the Democratic Presidential Nomination]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think ew is misreading Edwards’ answers to these questions. The populist rhetorical approach has always been to prefer the specific, the personal, and the immediate over the general, the technical, and the complete. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you look at Edwards’ answers to the all the questions, you can see a consistent tactic. He re-frames an “insider baseball” question with an answer that’s meaningful in the terms of our current situation. I think this is exactly the right technique. People want to know what the next President is going to &lt;strong&gt;do&lt;/strong&gt;, not whether he passed Con Law.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Full Disclosure: I strongly support John Edwards for the Democratic Presidential Nomination]</p>
<p>I think ew is misreading Edwards’ answers to these questions. The populist rhetorical approach has always been to prefer the specific, the personal, and the immediate over the general, the technical, and the complete. </p>
<p>If you look at Edwards’ answers to the all the questions, you can see a consistent tactic. He re-frames an “insider baseball” question with an answer that’s meaningful in the terms of our current situation. I think this is exactly the right technique. People want to know what the next President is going to <strong>do</strong>, not whether he passed Con Law.</p>
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		<title>By: scribe</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39949</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/#comment-39949</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EW - your points on Edwards’ response are well taken, though I think the point he was trying to make was “while it is within the realm of possibility that it can be used for partisan ends, that is an improper use.”  This is analogous to saying that it is within the realm of possibility to use a hammer to bop someone on the head, that remains an improper use of the tool.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More in-depth, the toughest issues any President succeeding the current occupants of the Oval Office will confront are: “how to clean out the cancerous mess Bush/Cheney both created and left?” and “how to vitiate the precedents created by their power grabs so it cannot happen again?” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While as to the first it is easy to say “prosecute the unpardoned and force the pardoned to testify”, it may well take the aggressive use of the executive powers to dig out the mess from all the corners where it has been buried.  Edwards (for one;  the same applies to Obama and Clinton) has probably been informed by the history surrounding Carter’s promise to “never lie to the American people” which he made to limn the contrast between his putative administration and the then-existing Republican administration.  That, anyone from that era can recall, was used to come back and bite him for predictions which did not come true.  The RWNM of the 70s, such as it existed, transmuted inaccuracy or necessary-to-preserve-secrets obfuscations into lies, and then into broken campaign promises.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thus, while it is doubltess appealing (and correct) to say “No.” as Dodd did, such a definitive answer may put the answerer in the position where he/she does not want to be in future.  Biden’s answer, BTW, is both correct and intelligent.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As to the vitiating the power grab precedent, by way of example, it would be relatively easy to close Gitmo and send the captives on their way, whereever.  The problem with that is that doing so does not destroy the assumed-legitimacy of having a Gitmo in the first place.  As it stands now, Gitmo has a legitimacy because it has been (a) funded, (b) continued, (c) built, to a degree, into legislation, (d) allowed to a degree by judicial precedent.  That infrastructure of precedent legitimating (the example of) Gitmo is what needs to be destroyed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Likely that work will have to be done brick by brick and decision by decision, much as the structure was built in the first place.  Otherwise, that work has to be done along the German WWII example, which entails massive destruction of society and infrastructure.  Though it might be satisfying to apply the Bushco precedents and principles to Republicans, the more vigorously the better, the keening and outcry from their friends in the media would likely result in the impeachment Pelosi has managed to avoid for Bushco so far.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, answers to simple questions about executive privilege - while very useful - neither adequately address nor present visions of the solutions to the central problems - undoing the damage and destroying the precedents which made that damage-doing possible.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EW &#8211; your points on Edwards’ response are well taken, though I think the point he was trying to make was “while it is within the realm of possibility that it can be used for partisan ends, that is an improper use.”  This is analogous to saying that it is within the realm of possibility to use a hammer to bop someone on the head, that remains an improper use of the tool.</p>
<p>More in-depth, the toughest issues any President succeeding the current occupants of the Oval Office will confront are: “how to clean out the cancerous mess Bush/Cheney both created and left?” and “how to vitiate the precedents created by their power grabs so it cannot happen again?” </p>
<p>While as to the first it is easy to say “prosecute the unpardoned and force the pardoned to testify”, it may well take the aggressive use of the executive powers to dig out the mess from all the corners where it has been buried.  Edwards (for one;  the same applies to Obama and Clinton) has probably been informed by the history surrounding Carter’s promise to “never lie to the American people” which he made to limn the contrast between his putative administration and the then-existing Republican administration.  That, anyone from that era can recall, was used to come back and bite him for predictions which did not come true.  The RWNM of the 70s, such as it existed, transmuted inaccuracy or necessary-to-preserve-secrets obfuscations into lies, and then into broken campaign promises.  </p>
<p>Thus, while it is doubltess appealing (and correct) to say “No.” as Dodd did, such a definitive answer may put the answerer in the position where he/she does not want to be in future.  Biden’s answer, BTW, is both correct and intelligent.</p>
<p>As to the vitiating the power grab precedent, by way of example, it would be relatively easy to close Gitmo and send the captives on their way, whereever.  The problem with that is that doing so does not destroy the assumed-legitimacy of having a Gitmo in the first place.  As it stands now, Gitmo has a legitimacy because it has been (a) funded, (b) continued, (c) built, to a degree, into legislation, (d) allowed to a degree by judicial precedent.  That infrastructure of precedent legitimating (the example of) Gitmo is what needs to be destroyed.</p>
<p>Likely that work will have to be done brick by brick and decision by decision, much as the structure was built in the first place.  Otherwise, that work has to be done along the German WWII example, which entails massive destruction of society and infrastructure.  Though it might be satisfying to apply the Bushco precedents and principles to Republicans, the more vigorously the better, the keening and outcry from their friends in the media would likely result in the impeachment Pelosi has managed to avoid for Bushco so far.  </p>
<p>So, answers to simple questions about executive privilege &#8211; while very useful &#8211; neither adequately address nor present visions of the solutions to the central problems &#8211; undoing the damage and destroying the precedents which made that damage-doing possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39948</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/#comment-39948</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank god for Charlie Savage for providing some coverage of substantive issues.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is Edwards describing Executive Privilege, in its current state of judicial review, as a privilege that &lt;strong&gt;can &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;legally &lt;/strong&gt;be used for partisan gain while pledging that he would not do so?   &lt;em&gt;… I will not invoke executive privilege merely to advance partisan ends.&lt;/em&gt; Of course, his pledge is a black and white rule in a world of grey and therefore, ambiguous. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hopefully, Charlie Savage or others plan to do some follow-up to tease out some clarity.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Great stuff EW, &lt;em&gt;graci&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank god for Charlie Savage for providing some coverage of substantive issues.</p>
<p>Is Edwards describing Executive Privilege, in its current state of judicial review, as a privilege that <strong>can </strong><strong>legally </strong>be used for partisan gain while pledging that he would not do so?   <em>… I will not invoke executive privilege merely to advance partisan ends.</em> Of course, his pledge is a black and white rule in a world of grey and therefore, ambiguous. </p>
<p>Hopefully, Charlie Savage or others plan to do some follow-up to tease out some clarity.  </p>
<p>Great stuff EW, <em>graci</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Stormwatcher</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39946</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormwatcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Obama&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Isn’t this statement extremely broad? It seems to cover Bush and all his antics, especially when taken with the previous “reasonable people have debated it”. Biden’s answer seemed the most instructional, as if he were a professor teaching a class. Edward’s answer “as guided by judicial review” was in his first sentence. His second sentence was a dig at Bush.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Obama</strong>
</p>
<blockquote><p>executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Isn’t this statement extremely broad? It seems to cover Bush and all his antics, especially when taken with the previous “reasonable people have debated it”. Biden’s answer seemed the most instructional, as if he were a professor teaching a class. Edward’s answer “as guided by judicial review” was in his first sentence. His second sentence was a dig at Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39943</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/#comment-39943</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;FWIW, I still hold to my reading of Edwards. Executive Privilege either exists in such a way that it CAN’T be used for partisan ends, or it doesn’t, and Edwards describes one that, even after judicial review still gives the President the power to determine what is partisan or not. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Though I will say, all of his answers seem rather off-topic. IMO he used this as another opportunity to hit his talking points, rather than answer the questions, so all his answers come off as being more favorable to executive power than I think he really believes. I like Hillary’s answer here least, but she answered the question head on, which I appreciate at least.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, I still hold to my reading of Edwards. Executive Privilege either exists in such a way that it CAN’T be used for partisan ends, or it doesn’t, and Edwards describes one that, even after judicial review still gives the President the power to determine what is partisan or not. </p>
<p>Though I will say, all of his answers seem rather off-topic. IMO he used this as another opportunity to hit his talking points, rather than answer the questions, so all his answers come off as being more favorable to executive power than I think he really believes. I like Hillary’s answer here least, but she answered the question head on, which I appreciate at least.</p>
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		<title>By: dude</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-39941</link>
		<dc:creator>dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/23/executive-privilege/#comment-39941</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe Edwards’ answer satisfactory. Judicial Review has not been conducted on so much of Bush’s antics,but I think if reviewe were conducted the space for Executive Privilege would narrow significantly. I hear Edwards saying the Nixon-Clinton era restraints are what he can live with, and if narrower or broader constraints come along judicially, it’s okwy too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Edwards’ answer satisfactory. Judicial Review has not been conducted on so much of Bush’s antics,but I think if reviewe were conducted the space for Executive Privilege would narrow significantly. I hear Edwards saying the Nixon-Clinton era restraints are what he can live with, and if narrower or broader constraints come along judicially, it’s okwy too.</p>
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