(Or Is it Civil War?)
There has been a lot of hand-wringing in this post, suggesting that the story revealing some Democratic members of the Gang of Four was a hit piece by Republicans (or, specifically, Porter Goss). That strikes me as an overly Manichean view of things, in which an article that makes Democrats look bad could only be a Republican hit piece. There's another party in this equation--the Intelligence Community. The events of the last ten days make more sense, it seems to me, if you consider all of those events as a revolt on the part of the Intelligence Community.
Start with the release of the NIE. Pat Lang passes on the explanation that the NIE was declassified after "intelligence career seniors" threatened to leak the NIE to the press, legal consequences be damned.
The "jungle telegraph" in Washington is booming with news of the Iran NIE. I am told that the reason the conclusions of the NIE were released is that it was communicated to the White House that "intelligence career seniors were lined up to go to jail if necessary" if the document's gist were not given to the public. Translation? Someone in that group would have gone to the media "on the record" to disclose its contents.
Dafna Linzer and Peter Baker provide the polite version--but still point to a senior intelligence officer who describes making the decision in the first person plural.
By last weekend, an intense discussion broke out about whether to keep it secret. "We knew it would leak, so honesty required that we get this out ahead, to prevent it from appearing to be cherry picking," said a top intelligence official. So McConnell reversed himself, and analysts scrambled over the weekend to draft a declassified version.
So somewhere in the ranks of the "career seniors" and the "top intelligence officials" some folks made a decision to confront Dick Cheney's war-mongering directly. That's a pretty serious escalation of the long-brewing conflict between Cheney and the Intelligence Community.
Then there's the blockbuster by Mark Mazzetti (NYT's intelligence reporter) revealing the destruction of the torture tapes. He sources it to:
current and former government officials
several officials
current and former government officials
former intelligence official who was briefed on the issue
But not Porter Goss (who would otherwise qualify as a "former government official"); Goss declined to comment through a spokesperson. And also not Michael Hayden, who wrote a letter to pre-empt Mazzetti's story that provides a laughable party line for CIA officers to parrot.
Now, there's nothing that says Mazzetti's sources, save the last one (who provided the most detail about the rationale for making the tapes) were intelligence officials. Indeed, Mazzetti includes a link to the DOJ letter to Leonie Brinkema on the recently discovered tapes, suggesting he has been mucking around at DOJ, too (Eric Lichtblau, NYT's DOJ reporter, gets credit on the article). Clearly though, much of this story comes from some people within the CIA who were closely involved with the decision to make the tapes, but who don't necessarily approve of the decision to destroy them.
In the ensuing uproar over this, focus has shifted from the timing of this story. Few people have asked, for example, whether the uproar over this story is going to make it harder for Bush to veto the Intelligence Authorization Bill which would require the CIA to abide by the interrogation techniques described in the Army Field Manual--effectively prohibiting CIA use of waterboarding. Or, will the scrutiny that the this story will bring make it easier to summon the two-thirds majority to override a Bush veto? While I can't guarantee it was intentional, I'd say the story on the destroyed terror tapes benefits those in DOJ and CIA who would like CIA to stop using methods considered torture. My amateur understanding is that that is by no means everyone at CIA--but that there are significant numbers who are uncomfortable with CIA officers engaging in activities that will expose them to legal difficulties in the future.
Congress' apparent bi-partisan response to the news of the torture tape destruction was outrage directed at the intelligence community (though Pat Roberts may be an exception to this; he remains mum on the whole issue). Of note, the HPSCI threatened to hold hearings on the entire process of interrogations, rather than just the destruction of the torture tapes.
And, voila, we get the story revealing that Congressional leadership--including some of the same Members of Congress launching investigations into CIA's interrogation methods--were briefed on them and, with the apparent exception of Jane Harman, did not object right away. For those who complain that the Pelosi comments in the WaPo had to have come from a Pelosi enemy, she issued a statement that in no way contradicts the depiction in the WaPo.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, among the lawmakers who attended the briefing, issued a statement on Sunday saying that she eventually did protest the techniques and that she concurred with objections raised by a Democratic colleague in a letter to the C.I.A. in early 2003.
That is, she did not raise objections when she first attended briefings in 2002, as the HPSCI Ranking Member. She only later "concurred" in objections, presumably the objections Jane Harman raised after she replaced Pelosi is HPSCI ranking member. So when Congress was briefed in 2002, it appears, they gave legal sanction to the methods they were briefed on. It matters little that Pelosi has been replaced by Reyes and Graham by Jello Jay and Goss by Hoekstra; what matters is that when Congress had the opportunity to intervene, it did not do so.
Which, if I were the CIA about to undergo painful Congressional inquiries into past practices, I would want to be clearly established.
So here's what has happened in the last 10 days. The Intelligence Community has severely undercut Dick Cheney's propaganda efforts and threatened his plans to bring us to war. Someone--perhaps DOJ or perhaps CIA or perhaps both--has made it a lot harder for Bush to veto a bill getting the CIA out of the waterboarding business. And, at the same time, CIA has made it crystal clear that the waterboarding itself--as distinct from the destruction of the torture tapes--had legal sanction from Congress' top intelligence leaders.
That all makes sense to me, in a way that doesn't require the involvement of Republicans smear masters at all.
One more note. I suggested this might be a civil war within the CIA. That's premised on two things. First, as far as I understand it, CIA officers are split over whether they think CIA should be in the waterboarding business. If so, the leak on the torture tapes may well be an attempt to force the issue on the part of those opposing torture. Furthermore, there's an interesting chronology, in which the briefings and legal approval for torture happened before Porter Goss' tenure (when he was giving it legal sanction in Congress), whereas the destruction of the tapes happened during Goss' tenure as DCI. And, voila, the officer who had the most direct clash with Porter Goss before he resigned to protest Goss' cronyism, Steven Kappes, is back in a senior position at CIA. So this may be a fight between the Gosslings and the professionals. But even granting Porter Goss' Republican affiliation, that doesn't mean any of this is a partisan fight.
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If you are correct, and I think you have real grounds to be correct, there’s a great deal more to come leak-wise.
Go Marcy!
Is the civil war really between two factions — those who are okay with waterboarding, and those that aren’t?
Larry Johnson’s comments appear to indicate at least one more possible faction: those in CIA who don’t want to take the heat for the damage contractors by under orders or with consent of DoD.
I’ve never thought that CIA appreciated Rummy’s investment into military intelligence in order to bypass CIA, and Rummy likely pissed them off further with outsourcing to contract help, including other foreign agents.
Sounds like a reasonable analysis to me. I totally agree that the Pelosi angle is coming from the intelligence community and not the Republican smear machine. I think a lot of our spooks have had it with the hand-wringing speeches from Congress, when Congress seems to have been briefed about his five years ago. Pelosi seems to be saying that they didn’t tell her very much, which begs the usual question: “What did you know, and when did you know it?”
Agh. I meant to point out, too, that until the Dems “run into the tackle” and lay what they know out in full public view, we can’t know that the Dems involved were not told that non-U.S. entities were handling these matters off American soil, and therefore it was all okay.
with all of the above, i agree.
i simply would suggest that the nuance offered
by EW may never be verifiable. what is verifiable,
is that porter goss is likely to be the focus of an
obstruction of justice inquiry, if not an indictment.
and, he is a named source for the wa po piece.
i simply suggest motive to spin, here — and he
has truckloads of motive. it likely won’t matter
to the larger narrative — that is, he will be the focus,
as opposed to the grand architect, cheney. . .
but i do agree this blood is on all our hands.
i simply suggest that the wa po was perhaps
willingly used by porter goos, and the wa po
willingly used porter goss, to try to grab some
headlines back from the new york times — as
the grey lady has simply owned the past week
of scandal-breaking and coverage of the same.
wa po needed a “me too!” piece; goss kindly offered.
wa po honored the offer. thus the “expose”. . .
just my $0.02.
but my version doesn’t require a civil war
inside intelligence agencies — nor a revolt.
just ordinary courage of conviction. a
conviction to let the truth, out.
that is, i think the intelligence folks are actually
just doing their job — telling the truth as they
know it — and if that now means crossing the
president, and his vice emperor — so be it.
i wish they’d done so in 2002 or 2003.
but that ship sailed.
[more on this at my place. . .]
p e a c e
OT but intriguing: The Libby Defense Fund appears to have closed up shop: http://www.rawstory.com/news/m.....02007.html
Does that mean that the Libby appeal will be announved/adjudicated shortly?
OT — better stock up on IPA, EW.
No hops means no beer
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d.....00307/1001
I’m an ale drinker, so I’m not sweating it, but perhaps putting in a crop of hops next year might be a nice hedge.
EW — I think you have got this exactly right. I have two quick questions for you though…
1) The Post listed 6 names (4 Dem and 2 Rep). Is this because membership shifted in the Gang of 4 among the Dems, but not the Reps? Or are we missing a couple of Republican names on the list of those briefed?
2) For those of us who have not run across Kappes name before, would you give us a brief recap of who he is and what axe he has to grind against Cheney/Goss?
And finally, it occurs to me reading your post that Goss got the nod to head CIA specifically because he already was well aware of the torture regime, and having signed off on it as a member of Congress, would not stop it as CIA chief. I remember at the time it was said that he got the nod due to his extensive experience in matters of intelligence, and being a member of Congress would be easily confirmed. However, now I think the rationale was all about keeping the wheels turning in the application of torture.
That piece was not sourced to Goss–one quote was. The rest was sourced to people who apparently did the briefings, which would put it back in 2002, before the Gosslings came to CIA.
The reason I mentioned Steven Kappes is because I think he–and his allies–may well be a primary source fr the WaPo story. As Larry Johnson has made clear, Kappes was clearly involved in establishing the interrogation program. But he was NOT involved in destroying the tapes. So if the CIA is about to get in trouble for Goss’ decision, it would do well for CIA to 1) expose it as GOss, and 2) still insist, correctly, that Congress gave the torture legal sanction.
If the WaPo was willingly used by Goss, then it would have made a much stronger argument that the destruction of the tapes was legal. It did not. Ergo, not a Goss article, primarily.
My reading of it is that they’re dropping the appeal completely.
You use phrase “legal sanction” several times. That sounds like a technical term. Can members of Congress who have been briefed confer legal sanction? Or were you using the phrase more loosely? If so, might I suggest that they were offering “bureacratic sanction” or “political sanction”?
A nitpick, but if they really were empowered to offer legal sanction, I’d like to know that!
After no WMD’s were found in Iraq, the administration blamed the Intelligence community. We knew Cheney was beating a path to the CIA, intimidating lower eschelon agents, cherry picking his rationals for war. I thought at the time it was a bad idea to piss-off the CIA, and CIA would make them pay for it. So, I agree with you that both the NIE and the tape destruction stories come from the CIA et al, not rightwing smearmeisters. The arrogance of the all-powerful(in their own minds) Cheney and Bush has done them in. I love the smell of schaedenfreude in the morning.
Hasn’t there been a lot of turnover at the CIA in the last couple of years or so?
In April of this year, Hayden said that half the CIA was hired since 9/11.
When I first heard that I worried that the CIA had become politicized in the same way that DOJ was politicized. I know a lot of people left when Porter Goss took over, and some left when he left.
When the Iran NIE came out, I was relieved. It seems as if the CIA is actually trying to job the job they were supposed to be doing without politics. But look at the push back from the neocons. They are discrediting the CIA conclusions. CIA must be under intense pressure to perform to political expectations. I am sure Cheney is plotting to destroy each one of them personally and as a collective agency.
EW, you might find the latest from here intersting:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/M.....1Ak01.html
(Sorry all, I am still having problems with the link icon)
Remeber, Bush made a speech in 2004 where he stated that we were “still looking” for the connection of Iran to 9-11.
Thanks, let me rephrase the question…
Bush has approved Libby’s pardon?
Here is the membership of the Gang of Eight, over the span of the Bush Administration:
SSCI Dem Leader: Graham until 2003, Jello Jay
SSCI GOP Leader: Pat Roberts until 2006, then Kit Bond
HPSCI Dem Leader: Pelosi until 2003, Harman through 2006, Reyes
HPSCI GOP Leader: Goss until 2004, Hoekstra
Senate Dem Leader: Daschle until 2004, Reid
Senate GOP Leader: Trent Lott until 2002, Frist until 2006, McConnell
House Dem Leader: Geppy until 2003, Pelosi
House GOP Leader: Hastert until 2006, Boehner
Some of those dates may be slightly off. But
I think it’s more likely that it means the big donors are all saying, “We’re not funding this horseshit anymore.”
It’s a little hard to keep proclaiming your innocence when the President’s own lawyer, whose job is to find ways to tell the President what he wants to hear, has said that you’re totally guilty.
Question for Dana Peroxide this morn:
Reporter: We understand that Libby has dropped his appeal, will
the President pardon Libby? If so, when… if so, can Bush be
tried as a co-consprator in obstructing justice?
I’ll take the answer off the air…
I was using the term loosely, but it is more than political or bureaucratic sanction.
If BushCo had tortured without letting SSCI and HPSCI review it, he would technically have been outside of legal practices for Intelligence (though since he has an OLC ruling stating he can violate his own EOs, I’m not sure it matters). Incidentally, Saturday’s article states the briefings took place later in 2002, so they actually started after the Abu Zubaydah torture.
But if Intell briefs the Committees on something and they don’t object or pass legislation preventing something, then Intell has fulfilled its oversight requirements.
I actually think Jello Jay’s objection to the warrantless wiretap program may be strong enough to count as legal notice that the program was illegal, because he basically told Cheney the program seemed to be the same as the TIA program that Congress was in the process of making illegal.
Here’s the 2004 http://www.notinourname.net/war/iran-20jul04.htm LA Times article which addresses the first time CIA disagreed with Bush on Iran in terms of 9-11.
Interesting read…
Thanks for digging EW.
I don’t think questions about the intentions of the WaPo, particular reporters agendas, sources, the CIA’s attorneys, possible enemies of Pelosi and Rockefeller are “complaining”. I think these questions are logical, rational and healthy especially given the track record of the MSM.
Justin Raimando’s latest
Justin Raimando’s new article on the NIE blowback
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12030
Iran, Nukes,
and the ‘Laptop of Death’
How we were almost lied into war – again
Raimando “The question that cries out for an answer, however, is: who duped us the last time around?”
Hello Senator Rockefeller where is the complete report on Phase II of the SSCI?
The first thing that came out was that congresscritter were shown virtual presentations of the torture facilities. I’d like to see how accurately and honestly this was presented before I condemn the viewers. Not that I’m holding hope.
I lived in the DC suburbs for almost 20 years. My neighbors represented virtually every agency including my 2 exFBI parents and the now non-active spook down the street (his wife got caught playing around, no more active duty for him). Of the several CIA people I knew, they would be the types to do this carefully timed information release. They were all intelligent proud people and information is what they do for a living. I think most of them would be capable of sacrificing their careers for the right reason.
Short, this fits with what I know of these professionals.
as to what you wrote — you are
the expert on press tech — not i. . .
so i’ll concur. . . but this:
i hear you on the first point, but as to
the second — what if all the wa po wanted
to do. . . was simply. . . sell papers? i mean,
they didn’t need an over-riding, philosophical,
world-view to advance — they only needed
to be widely quoted by all of us, to sell
more advertising space. . . same with the
new york times, in my opinion. the wa po did
not go out of its way to support goss — it just
quite liberally quoted from him, on the record.
that sells papers.
now — a nit, i know, but i agree with the
prof — it is only the united states supreme
court that will give legal sanction to water-
boarding — or not do so. . . congress approves
unconstitutional measures fairly regularly.
so, i agree, prof — the pelosi silence is
only one-link in a much larger chain to ulti-
mately establishing lawfulness.
great stuff — EW, you;ve got
me [thought-?] provoked!
p e a c e
Thanks, klynn — that is interesting, has been interesting to watch the weird reaction overseas.
It’s one of the reasons I’m concerned about the contractor angle, beyond feedback from Larry Johnson and others. Why is Europe still acting as if nothing happened, still acting as if it’s August 2007?
Were their own intelligence agencies likewise compromised by “contractors” and remain in thrall to the same today?
Something just doesn’t add up here.
The NIE comes from 16 different agencies iirc. I suspect the real push to getting it out came from DOD not CIA, but that’s jmho.
Totally agree. With my time in DC, same experience. Plus have two friends at the agency who would sacrifice their careers in order to protect our country.
Thanks for the list — I appreciate it!
Kappes was in charge of Operations when Goss came in. He is, by all accounts, very competent, though I get the feeling he is definitely a hard ass (after a lifetime of operations work, you think???).
Goss brought his GOsslings in in fall 2004, and in the process demanded that Kappes fire a top aide for insubordination or something. Instead, Kappes resigned. It was the most public example of the long-time career people who left under Goss.
Then, when Cheney was pushing for Hayden as DCI last year, it appears there was a deal, to bring Kappes back as Deputy. He is one of the very few people to have that rank who rose through the ranks of the CIA, and his return made the career folks very happy to have a champion again. I think any attempt to end torture (because it’ll only get CIA officers in legal trouble, not for any principled reasons), but at the same time to insist on its legal sanction, would come out of a desire to protect the career officers.
Kappes also vetted the NIE in SEptember, so he could well be one of the “senior careers” who threatened to go public. If Kappes had gone public and been legally sanction, I suspect it would have the same weight as if Comey and Ashcroft and a bunch of others ersigned at the same time.
Just sayin’.
You list seventeen names here. I notice that seven of them either no longer hold elected office or are retiring after the 2004 elections. That is a much higher turnover rate than the rest of Congress.
Receiving a briefing can make your tenure in Congress brief.
larry Johnson brings are attention to Larisa’s digs
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2.....ure-tapes/
Larisa Alexandrovna turning over rocks.
http://www.atlargely.com/2007/.....n-whe.html
Larry sharing his important insights on the “torture tapes”
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2.....ure-tapes/
Thanks EW, that helps. Any idea who was pushing for the deal to bring Kappes back at the same time as Hayden came in? Also, any idea what Kappes has been doing in the intervening years since his resignation under Goss?
The intelligence group that stared down Cheney did a preemptive leak to keep Pelosi and Jello Jay from squashing any oversight. By leaking to show their complicity, these two will have to stay out of the decisions on oversight so they cannot cover it all up or make it go away. The WH may have used this info in the past to make them take oversight “off the table”, so why would they release info that they could use to control them. These leaks seem to me to be from intelligence to make Dem leadership recuse themselves, and to make the torture “heros” look like the criminal conspiracy scum that they are hiding evidence of what they have done.
If you were unable to watch Senator Biden touch the truth on “This Week” do yourself a favor. and watch
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics.....038;page=1
Larisa Alexandrovna digs
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/p.....letter.pdf
Oh my. It’s not just that the defense fund has closed up shop. Libby has dropped his appeal - his filing on it was due tomorrow.
Pardon now promised?
Thank you, that was the most plausible narrative yet.
To add to that, I don’t think the “jackets”, as JEHoover called his blackmail files (sorry mom, I had to call a spade a spade), on these people are empty yet. That “man sized safe” can hold a lot of s..t.
A side:
My mother was tasked to listen in on Hoovers phone calls, before they had tape recorders, to prove he never really “blackmailed” anyone. What that woman took to her grave could’a devastated the FBI. To bad we don’t have anyone placed like that in the Big Dick’s office.
Select the word or words, which is the location you wish to place the hyperlink. Click on the chain link icon. Type or better yet PASTE in the URL.
Or, we paid for your defense, we paid for your fine, the president kept you out of jail wouldn’t it be a lot cheaper for us if he pardons you on his way out the door? BUT what if the fix is in and the Prez has agreed in advance?
My hunch would be no, but I’m wondering what EW thinks. I think the Libby defense fund ran out of money, and the donors probably see no point in appeals that are going to be lost. I also think the Cheney cabal wants this story out of the news. I continue to think that a pardon, even a last minute one, is unlikely. A pardon would lead to Libby immediately being hauled into the grand jury again. He’d have trouble pleading the fifth there, and Fitz would probably be willing to immunize him if he did.
Just remember, dropping his appeal means Libby now gets to carry the titles “Convicted Felon”, “Convicted Perjurer”, “Liar” and such around for the rest of his miserable life.
FrankProbst said,
Yeah well the thing that pisses me off about this Congress is the idea that their job is to sit passive and listen to the briefings.
Nope.
Ask hard questions.
Probe for hidden details.
Find what’s covered up.
Oversight: it’s not just hearings!
Bu’ush can pardon him for crimes not yet charged.
Characteristically insightful. A day may come when I vex you on the possibilty that the CIA was in revolt with a particular criminal referral back in the summer of 2003, but this is not that day; having come to mutual agreement on the concept of a CIA revolt, we can debate specific instances elsewhere (elsetime?).
Re Porter Goss - it does not follow that just because he declined to speak to the WaPo on the record he did not speak to them at all; maybe he is being cleverly disguised as a former official.
But of potentially greater interest - we all remember that Porter Goss worked for the CIA at one time.
But do we also remember where in the CIA Goss came to fame? In all the great wide world of the 60’s and 70’s Cold War, Goss was involved in the Bay of Pigs and Latin America. I find that to be very interesting given the emergence of Jose Rodriguez in this debacle.
However, I can’t get the timing to work - Goss left the CIA in 1972, and Rodriguez was lauded in the Times for “three decades” of service - I am guessing that to mean the 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s, but even if it is literally thirty years he would have been starting after Goss left.
Of course, that does not mean that they didn’t have mutual friends and mutual interests. Or perhaps they are on the opposite side of some old antagonisms. But I suspect a Goss-Rodriguez relationship would be of general interest, and I am certain I won’t have time to poke at or around it.
Or the ever-pleasing phrase of “you’re a feckin’ criminal!“
And I expect his rejoinder to be “Don’t phrase me, bro!”
That was my take at the Libby trial. Libby and his wife knew they would skip right over the Justice system. So much for Fitz’s words “truth is the engine of our Justice system” Yeah right!
No need to wonder why there is such deep dis respect for our Justice system.
http://firedoglake.com/2007/02.....ourthouse/
I am glad someone thinks I am not too off the wall. It seems the intell group are going after anyone who will try to stop what they are trying to accomplish. Their list is getting shorter. Dick, check. George, check. The mustache guy who was director of operations, check. Pelosi, check. Jello Jay, check. Who is next will be interesting.
Your mom sounds like a real trooper, not many of those left. My mom was secretary to a fed judge during desegregation in the south. My dad was afraid she was going to get killed. That was when judges did the right thing, not what was popular. I didn’t understand how brave they were until I was an adult.
““three decades” of service” in government can include military and any other gov job by the way the GSA handles it.
When my dad went to the FCC after being in the private sector, he got seniority etc from his time in the Navy and the FBI.
Interesting that there is enough institutional resistance left at CIA
after decades of team B and repeated purges and the final insult of the
directorate of national security “reform”. Any chance that planeload of
nukes that got “lost” then found at the launch point for an airstrike
loosened lips to sink the ship?
One addition to your list (from TPM Muckraker’s Spencer Ackerman), is that weasel of weasels “Richard Shelby, (R-AK), was the vice chairman of the Senate intelligence committee in 2002.”
And remember if you are black and beat the shit out of a white kid and our under age you will get tried, held in wrist and ankle shackles, convicted as an adult and do time.
http://ap.google.com/article/A.....QD8TD31BO0
And if you torture dogs
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co.....iving.html
Prisons
http://www.hrw.org/reports/200.....g00-01.htm
But if you were in the Bush adminstration and outed an undercover agent, undermined National Security and then lied about it and obstructed justice….YOU WALK
So who will hire Libby and pay him a couple hundred thousand dollars a year? The American Enterprise Institute? Consequences yeah right! Cry me a river
phred@39: seven years is a long time, revenge is a dish best eaten cold, and the players who count are rarely or never to be seen. For what it’s worth, I think Negroponte brought back Kappes, and has more than a little to do with what’s going on in the shark-tank.
By chance, I’ve known some CIA folks over the years. We all know they regard their “company” as a club, and that they also take pride in their work. They know how to survive, and even to tolerate, various kinds of abuses from competing agencies, chiefly DIA. I think they were furious at the meltdown (not of their own making) that led to 9-11, but this would not in itself provoke a mutiny. Not even Cheney’s interferences would provoke a mutiny of much consequence. But the outing of Valery Plame? This one act was a declaration of war, and that war has been waged, more-or-less openly, every since. With the allegiance, to be sure, of friends in the FBI, and, most importantly, of Powell during his tenure at State–he being the only military/civilian figure who could generate and assemble enough pressure to get the Fitzgerald game in play.
Powell is everyone’s favorite punching-bag, but he sure as hell knows how to get even. The most interesting of his moves–and coming after the launching of the Plame investigation–was Negroponte’s appointment to the UN, and his subsequent turns in Iraq, as the Intelligence Czar, and now as the man who really runs State.
In the picture I’m drawing here, Congress is always a minor player (CIA has always so regarded it, which may explain a number of its problems, as with Senator Richard Shelby, for a recent example). And the getting of Cheney and has been their major mission ever since the outing of Plame. It’s a message being delivered “unto the tenth generation,” as it were.
This whole question of torture is a weapon they wield, and if it were to bring down Bush himself, they would regard it as a minor moment in the greater drama of their claim to power.
EW - Outstanding! It’s not often one gets to see an invisible hand at work!
I also agree with the Civil War analogy, and I see it as extensible throughout Bush’s Political Influence.
Bush never really cared about Vietnam, and he’s not re-fighting it now - but he’s okay with the Military thinking it’s their Vietnam Redemption!
Bush is Still fighting the Civil War - and the lines are still drawn the same: Those Who Support Right-less Torture of Non-Citizens and Those of US Who Support Basic Human Rights for All.
Politicization at DoJ? CIA? PIN? DoD? DHS? ICE? State?
Split along the lines of Un-questioning Loyalty to the Big Boss, and Equal Equal Human Rights Representation for All.
The first time, the South ‘Seceded’ from the Union. This time, BushCo has Covertly crawled inside Our Government to ‘Supercede’ the Union.
O/T, but the judgement in Conrad Black’s case is just coming through right now (if you have access to CBC). This is another of Fitz’s cases, btw. Judge St Eve is just working through the sentencing guidelines and arguments, and she has things located in the range of 78 to 97 months.
I’d link you to Mark Steyn’s version of live-blogging at Maclean’s, but you don’t really want that. Steyn is definitely no Marcy Wheeler.
Dubya does have this strange resonance with George Wallace that made
him a redneck hero, he is still beloved in that corner especially as he
gets deeper in and wilder in his public responses. You have him nailed.
How’s he doing with his attempt to serve his time in Canada, even though he’s no longer Canadian? My sense is that the Canadians are thoroughly enjoying the irony of his downfall.
Well, y’know … yeah. Some of us are.
Actually, I’m never that keen on sending people to jail … Or at least I used to think that. Lately, I may have been changing my mind.
In theory, Conrad should have a lot of trouble getting his citizenship back if he is a convicted felon in the U.S., but in fact I suspect that will depend on who is in government as the process goes on. The current Conservative government would be sympathetic is my guess. They’ll be facing an election within the year. Lord help us all if they win a majority, and if that happens, Conrad Black will be one of the lesser of our worries.
Alabama @54…
EW’s analysis and your comment make an epiphany moment. Keep an eye on Addington. I believe he has a target on his back.
Turning on more lights
http://noquarterusa.ne
t/blog/2007/12/10/what-destroyed-torture-tapes/#comments
Conrad Black link
He was John Deans first pick when asked at FDL who would be first on his “Impeachment” list
Just posted at tpm cafe by Larry Johnson:
link to the article, so you can follow the other links: http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/co.....ent-320640
Guardian
I agree with Professor Foland that informing a few Congress people about some activities does not amount to a legal sanction by the Congress. It doesn’t imply either that the Congress has discharged its responsibility of oversight.
What I find curious is the keying off on Nancy Pelosi. At the time she was Minority Whip and soon to become with Gephardt’s stepping down Minority Leader. In this, however, she is a something of a bit player. The real people to make waves if they had so chosen were the Republican chairmen. They, of course, didn’t. Sure, she could have made a speech on the House floor, but that would have required her to go against House traditions (which as part of the House leadership would have gone against her job in that leadership). And what could she have said? That a year after 9/11 (with the wounds still fresh) the CIA maybe was thinking about torture (which as far as she knew it had not yet engaged in) at some point in the future (although CIA counsel was vetting the process)?
I am not defending her role here, merely trying to understand it.
As for Goss, he was deeply involved in all this both when he was in the House and then as DCI. And his name has cropped up as a source in some of these stories so he is definitely not staying aloof. Dragging Pelosi into this is exactly the kind of thing a partisan hack like Goss would do.
Finally, Kappes is a big supporter of the CIA as an institution. He was on the operations side. This group may have been responsible for some of the CIA’s input into the NIE but I would think that the analytical side had very much more. Under no circumstances should Kappes be considered a good guy.
link you put up does not work (for me)… or is it sabotage?
Shoot. You’re right. And I was just talking elsewhere about how after Shelby leaked the NSA intercepts from 9/10, it gave BushCo a convenient excuse to not brief the Gang of Four (or Eight) for some time.
Hope to hear more from Jane Harmon.
Remember, pre-election 2002, the Dems are in the majority in the Senate. So yeah, Goss should have spoke up, but then so should have Graham.
Expanded statement from Pelosi, via TPM:
”On one occasion, in the fall of 2002, I was briefed on interrogation techniques the Administration was considering using in the future. The Administration advised that legal counsel for the both the CIA and the Department of Justice had concluded that the techniques were legal.
”I had no further briefings on the techniques. Several months later, my successor as Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jane Harman, was briefed more extensively and advised the techniques had in fact been employed. It was my understanding at that time that Congresswoman Harman filed a letter in early 2003 to the CIA to protest the use of such techniques, a protest with which I concurred.”
I have a little bit different view of what’s happening. One thing is clear. All the hubbub means that a whole lot of people think that somebody’s going to jail over this. Despite what people are saying now, everybody involved in the torture regime knew, or should have known, that what they were doing was illegal, immoral, and damn stupid. The operations folks in the CIA live in a weird legal netherworld. In theory, they are supposed to obey our laws while having the freedom to break other countries’ laws. In practice, that’s impossible. In the case of torture, it’s against our laws no matter where you do it or who you do it to. They were obviously willing to do it, but they wanted some paperwork in place to incriminate the people giving the orders.
The Bush administration, at the behest of Richard Bruce Cheney, gave it to them. I suspect the tapes (and the virtual tour) were made with the express purpose of showing them to political types to draw them further into the web of criminality and deceit.
I think the CIA is implicating Congressional leaders, but they aren’t the real targets. The CIA doesn’t want the Administration to make the “rogue agency” argument and scapegoat Jose Rodriguez and others, but the CIA has no cards to play against the Administration. The CIA is trying to either goad the Congress into taking on the Administration or goad them into covering up the whole affair. From an institutional perspective, I don’t think they much care which way it plays out. Unfortunately, I heard Jay Rockefeller using the rogue agency line this morning on NPR.
I think Alaska (AK) has enough problems without being “credited” with Shelby as one of their Senators. :})
He’s Alabama (AL). But we all get a little fat-fingered sometimes…
Also from TPM:
Scarecrow — Given Bybee’s disavowal of the Geneva Convention protections in January of 2002 and the fact that Al Qaeda members were already in custody in spring 2002 (see EW’s timeline here), it seems to me that either Pelosi was lied to in 2002 about this “future” implementation, or she is weaseling now.
Larry Johnson on Kappes. (this is from several days ago)
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2.....more-1141.
it irks me no end that i knew we were torturing people in early 2002 by reading the msm and human rights organization’s reports. this nonsense from speaker pelosi about not knowing we were using torture because she wasn’t fully briefed means either that she’s misleading us, or she’s ignorant to the point of being incompetent.
oh - and the bit about the administration advising them it was legal? this is the same administration that had just said that the geneva conventions didn’t apply. when rumsfeld said that, i went and read the geneva conventions (which the icrc helpfully has posted on their website, along with the commentary)…. ianal, but even i could tell that of course the geneva conventions applied to the people were rounding up, and that rummy was lying.
anyone, and this applies especially to members of congress, who took the administration at their word about what was and was not legal in our treatment of detainees immediately after the lies we were being told wrt the geneva conventions is either an idiot, not competent to hold senior office in our government, or maliciously lying to cover their own misdeeds.
argrhhhh!
I’ll be sure to let Spencer Ackerman of TPM that he has really fat fingers. *g*
My only excuse for not proof-reading the stuff of his that I quoted is…hmmm…when I think of it, I’ll let you know. *g*
Sorry.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/
I agree with this up to a point. But the consequences of revealing highly classified information are not those of your garden variety civil disobedience. We must create a legal framework within which people in possession of classified information who believe criminal conduct has occurred can report this to a court/neutral review panel/something, so that an individual does not risk their livelihood, freedom, or possibly life (for those who would cry treason at such revelations). The framework needs to be broadly available not to just the Gang of 4, but ALL government employees, so midlevel career civil servants would be free to report criminal conduct as well.
Can I just say that, as great as Larry Johnson may be, I find it incredibly annoying the constant referral to this that or the other post from him. And I’m not saying it because I fail to recognize that one can simply ignore it and not click the link. I’m saying it’s more like advertising than a genuine contribution to the conversation. If you think there’s a particular point that contributes to the conversation, make it.
Yowser! Justice?
Still no one doing any time for outing Valerie Plame/Wilson
sorry but I do believe the Kappes conversation here started after folks may have read what Larry had to say. Not sure but think so.