Comments on: Banana Split http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:35:13 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Neil http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36510 Neil Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:58:43 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36510 <p><strong>OT</strong></p> <p><a href="http://www.sausagenet.com/i/p/7-0.jpg">Banana Splits</a>. My brother loved watching that show.</p> OT

Banana Splits. My brother loved watching that show.

]]> By: Curious http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36509 Curious Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:56:15 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36509 <p>Great explanation. Thanks.</p> Great explanation. Thanks.

]]> By: radiofreewill http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36507 radiofreewill Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:34:12 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36507 <p>The order of Sheldon’s presentation is important, if you want to see what he’s pointing at.</p> <p>Going back to the exchange between Whitehouse and Mukasey during the confirmation hearings - one of the few bright spots on Mukasey’s ‘Mr. Hyde’ second day in front of the SJC - Whitehouse and Mukasey agreed that the President should amend, or cancel and re-issue, any EO he chooses not to comply with.</p> <p>So, Whitehouse already had Bush on the horns of a dilemma with EO 12333 - He knew Bush wasn’t complying with it, and yet the EO hadn’t been amended, and looked for all the World like an ‘in force’ Executive Order.</p> <p>So, Whitehouse then asked himself, ‘If I were Bush, how would I be able to explain my actions vis-a-vis 12333?’</p> <p>Fast forward, and Sheldon is in ‘the vault’ reading the OLC Opinions underpinning the NSA Warrantless Wiretapping Program, and what does he see?</p> <p>1. Everyone Else, must Obey EO 12333 (Do as I say), while I and my designates ignore it (not as I do), and I hide my actions from Congress.<br /> 2. EO 12333 is the Law, because I said so (What I say Goes!)<br /> 3. The Law, EO 12333, applies to everyone, except myself and my designates - the AG can give me his Opinion, but the decision is mine (No back-talk allowed!)</p> <p>So, Whitehouse’s speech delivers the ‘answer’ to his wonderment - How could Bush explain ignoring EO 12333? And the answer, inescapable but hard to accept, is by -</p> <p>- setting himself up Above the Law,<br /> - hiding it from Congress, and<br /> - not letting his ‘Agents’ vet the Authorizing Legal Opinion in a Court</p> <p>So, Whitehouse is all-but-saying: You can see where this can go, can’t you? If Bush is willing to ‘hide’ his ‘non-compliance’ with an ‘in force’ Executive Order, why wouldn’t he also hide ‘non-compliance’ with an ‘in force’ Judicial Order or an ‘in force’ Legislative Subpoena or ‘in force’ Adminstrative Law, etc?</p> <p>The problem with Bush’s Rationale is that it gives him ‘immunity’ from his own Laws, which makes US - de facto - no longer a Nation based on the Rule of Law, but rather a People subjected to the whims of a Tyrant and his Henchpeople.</p> The order of Sheldon’s presentation is important, if you want to see what he’s pointing at.

Going back to the exchange between Whitehouse and Mukasey during the confirmation hearings – one of the few bright spots on Mukasey’s ‘Mr. Hyde’ second day in front of the SJC – Whitehouse and Mukasey agreed that the President should amend, or cancel and re-issue, any EO he chooses not to comply with.

So, Whitehouse already had Bush on the horns of a dilemma with EO 12333 – He knew Bush wasn’t complying with it, and yet the EO hadn’t been amended, and looked for all the World like an ‘in force’ Executive Order.

So, Whitehouse then asked himself, ‘If I were Bush, how would I be able to explain my actions vis-a-vis 12333?’

Fast forward, and Sheldon is in ‘the vault’ reading the OLC Opinions underpinning the NSA Warrantless Wiretapping Program, and what does he see?

1. Everyone Else, must Obey EO 12333 (Do as I say), while I and my designates ignore it (not as I do), and I hide my actions from Congress.
2. EO 12333 is the Law, because I said so (What I say Goes!)
3. The Law, EO 12333, applies to everyone, except myself and my designates – the AG can give me his Opinion, but the decision is mine (No back-talk allowed!)

So, Whitehouse’s speech delivers the ‘answer’ to his wonderment – How could Bush explain ignoring EO 12333? And the answer, inescapable but hard to accept, is by -

- setting himself up Above the Law,
- hiding it from Congress, and
- not letting his ‘Agents’ vet the Authorizing Legal Opinion in a Court

So, Whitehouse is all-but-saying: You can see where this can go, can’t you? If Bush is willing to ‘hide’ his ‘non-compliance’ with an ‘in force’ Executive Order, why wouldn’t he also hide ‘non-compliance’ with an ‘in force’ Judicial Order or an ‘in force’ Legislative Subpoena or ‘in force’ Adminstrative Law, etc?

The problem with Bush’s Rationale is that it gives him ‘immunity’ from his own Laws, which makes US – de facto – no longer a Nation based on the Rule of Law, but rather a People subjected to the whims of a Tyrant and his Henchpeople.

]]> By: bonkers http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36503 bonkers Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:37:49 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36503 <p>We have alternatives.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cindyforcongress.org/">http://www.cindyforcongress.org/</a></p> We have alternatives.

http://www.cindyforcongress.org/

]]> By: selise http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36502 selise Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:35:08 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36502 <p>amen.</p> amen.

]]> By: Richmond http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36501 Richmond Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:34:12 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36501 <p>Selise: And, happily we are doing some of that, but both Dems and Rethugs are not too happy with that happening, nor is MSM.</p> Selise: And, happily we are doing some of that, but both Dems and Rethugs are not too happy with that happening, nor is MSM.

]]> By: selise http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36500 selise Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:31:15 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36500 <p>it also gives an opening for citizens to learn to question authority.</p> it also gives an opening for citizens to learn to question authority.

]]> By: Richmond http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36499 Richmond Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:27:10 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36499 <p>Alas, in taking down all involved -D & R- all it serves to do is to reimpower the oligarchy (wealthy rethugs), the clandestine global shapers (CIA) and others working outside the normal channels of government (whatever that may mean at this point in time).</p> Alas, in taking down all involved -D & R- all it serves to do is to reimpower the oligarchy (wealthy rethugs), the clandestine global shapers (CIA) and others working outside the normal channels of government (whatever that may mean at this point in time).

]]> By: selise http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36498 selise Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:22:45 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36498 <p>i agree - i hope everyone- D and R - who is complicit with torture is brought down. but i fear that the threat of mutual assured destruction (if i’m right) will deter the Ds (as it seems to have done so far) from a thorough investigation.</p> i agree – i hope everyone- D and R – who is complicit with torture is brought down. but i fear that the threat of mutual assured destruction (if i’m right) will deter the Ds (as it seems to have done so far) from a thorough investigation.

]]> By: Richmond http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/comment-page-1/#comment-36497 Richmond Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:22:33 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/banana-split/#comment-36497 <p>An awful lot of CIA crap has been vomited up these last few says (new NIE Iran report, revelations that CIA destroyed torture tapes, and the new report that Pelosi saw black sites/approved of “enhanced” torture). A couple of days ago in DC’s Dupont Circle area, I was pretty surprised to see two interviews underway at local well known public coffee places -one between a well known senior (former) CIA figure I recognized from the news and a journalist (notebook in hand) and the other involving a senior state dept official and another interviewer. Maybe this is normal for this area of DC. But it seems like what we are seing is a major push and counter push by competing groups in CIA and state. If I had to guess, I would say that a key battle is underway over the direction of the country in the ME. Pelosi - a coward in this, as in so many other things-is largely a pawn in the larger scheme of things. I bet she’s being slapped around on this however in part as a casualty of this battle.</p> An awful lot of CIA crap has been vomited up these last few says (new NIE Iran report, revelations that CIA destroyed torture tapes, and the new report that Pelosi saw black sites/approved of “enhanced” torture). A couple of days ago in DC’s Dupont Circle area, I was pretty surprised to see two interviews underway at local well known public coffee places -one between a well known senior (former) CIA figure I recognized from the news and a journalist (notebook in hand) and the other involving a senior state dept official and another interviewer. Maybe this is normal for this area of DC. But it seems like what we are seing is a major push and counter push by competing groups in CIA and state. If I had to guess, I would say that a key battle is underway over the direction of the country in the ME. Pelosi – a coward in this, as in so many other things-is largely a pawn in the larger scheme of things. I bet she’s being slapped around on this however in part as a casualty of this battle.

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