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	<title>Comments on: NIE Timeline, Take Three</title>
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		<title>By: merkwurdiglieber</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35202</link>
		<dc:creator>merkwurdiglieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35202</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nixon knew what he was doing when he created the pressroom over the&lt;br /&gt;
FDR swimming pool. He brought the press, literally, into the “process”,&lt;br /&gt;
made them defacto staff stenographers with quite a bit of prestige as&lt;br /&gt;
“working at the white house”… hence, the boomer and genX beltway&lt;br /&gt;
kewl kidz social contract that makes reality for them impossible. The&lt;br /&gt;
blogs that bedevil them so are an organic corrective to this rot, but&lt;br /&gt;
we are running out of time against pros who know how two minute drill us&lt;br /&gt;
to death, i.e. “damn close run thing”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nixon knew what he was doing when he created the pressroom over the<br />
FDR swimming pool. He brought the press, literally, into the “process”,<br />
made them defacto staff stenographers with quite a bit of prestige as<br />
“working at the white house”… hence, the boomer and genX beltway<br />
kewl kidz social contract that makes reality for them impossible. The<br />
blogs that bedevil them so are an organic corrective to this rot, but<br />
we are running out of time against pros who know how two minute drill us<br />
to death, i.e. “damn close run thing”.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35193</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35193</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;bob s @127 = ominous, but enlightening, link.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;EW, agree that the Dems still do not seem to grasp the full nature of the threat embodied by Bush and Cheney; the military and IC appear to have a better grasp than Congress.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The idea that Bush and/or Cheney might order rogue, red flag operations (almost certainly involving nuclear warheads) would be consistent with prior ‘rogue’ actions like subverting customary chains of command.  (Evidence? DoJ, FISA, Geneva Conventions, and so on…) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Their obsession with Iranian nuclear targets is consistent with Wm Ockham’s timeline data: 2003:  (1) Iran stops making nuclear weapons, (2)Valerie Plame is ‘outed’.  Bush and Cheney got: (1) payback for Wilson’s OpEd, plus (2)  an IC blinded with respect to Iranian capabilities.&lt;br /&gt;
The CIA employee tasked with tracking Iranian nuclear development would be a prime target for anyone who wanted to control information about Iranian nuclear plans; the fact that Wilson’s OpEd was in the NYT must have seemed  like confirmation to them that the IC was out to undercut their objectives to attack Iran.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A retrovirus succeeds by imitating familiarity.  It arrives disguised as a normal cell.  Bush seemed like ’such a normal guy’ to millions of Americans. But just because something arrives disguised doesn’t absolve anyone of  willful blindness in ignoring a threat.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hat tip to phred for coherence.&lt;br /&gt;
But I still have a question.  Did 6 nukes go missing in August?  Or was it 5?  Because we only hear of 5 accounted for.&lt;br /&gt;
Who’s counting…?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;McConnell was sworn in mid-February 07, the month that Fallon refused to send a third carrier to the Gulf.  Two months earlier, Gen. Peter Pace prepared the groundwork for Fallon when he made a determined that put a wrench in Bu$hCheney desires for aggression against Iran.   Pace was fired; Fallon, Pace, and McConnell may not get WH Christmas cards this year.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The kabuki and silent knife-fighting appear to be taking a toll: Bush looked dreadful in that NIE presser.  But Bush, Cheney, and the neocons are relentless.  True Believers can’t tolerate the humiliation or shame of giving up, nor of losing.  John Dean was right; Nixon realized when the game was over; Bu$hCheney won’t. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agree with whoever assessed that Iran and Putin are ascending, and that Sun Tzu had it right.  Putin and the Chinese may have a more accurate view of Bush (and Cheney) than Congress.  After all, Putin and the Chinese aren’t blinded by sentiment.   But an unsentimental view of their crimes would necessitate impeachment. If these things were true, would missing warheads, or confirmation of a rogue ‘red flag’ operation involving nuclear attack, be enough to merit a Congressional re-think about impeachment?  If not, why not?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bob s @127 = ominous, but enlightening, link.</p>
<p>EW, agree that the Dems still do not seem to grasp the full nature of the threat embodied by Bush and Cheney; the military and IC appear to have a better grasp than Congress.</p>
<p>The idea that Bush and/or Cheney might order rogue, red flag operations (almost certainly involving nuclear warheads) would be consistent with prior ‘rogue’ actions like subverting customary chains of command.  (Evidence? DoJ, FISA, Geneva Conventions, and so on…) </p>
<p>Their obsession with Iranian nuclear targets is consistent with Wm Ockham’s timeline data: 2003:  (1) Iran stops making nuclear weapons, (2)Valerie Plame is ‘outed’.  Bush and Cheney got: (1) payback for Wilson’s OpEd, plus (2)  an IC blinded with respect to Iranian capabilities.<br />
The CIA employee tasked with tracking Iranian nuclear development would be a prime target for anyone who wanted to control information about Iranian nuclear plans; the fact that Wilson’s OpEd was in the NYT must have seemed  like confirmation to them that the IC was out to undercut their objectives to attack Iran.  </p>
<p>A retrovirus succeeds by imitating familiarity.  It arrives disguised as a normal cell.  Bush seemed like ’such a normal guy’ to millions of Americans. But just because something arrives disguised doesn’t absolve anyone of  willful blindness in ignoring a threat.  </p>
<p>Hat tip to phred for coherence.<br />
But I still have a question.  Did 6 nukes go missing in August?  Or was it 5?  Because we only hear of 5 accounted for.<br />
Who’s counting…?</p>
<p>McConnell was sworn in mid-February 07, the month that Fallon refused to send a third carrier to the Gulf.  Two months earlier, Gen. Peter Pace prepared the groundwork for Fallon when he made a determined that put a wrench in Bu$hCheney desires for aggression against Iran.   Pace was fired; Fallon, Pace, and McConnell may not get WH Christmas cards this year.  </p>
<p>The kabuki and silent knife-fighting appear to be taking a toll: Bush looked dreadful in that NIE presser.  But Bush, Cheney, and the neocons are relentless.  True Believers can’t tolerate the humiliation or shame of giving up, nor of losing.  John Dean was right; Nixon realized when the game was over; Bu$hCheney won’t. </p>
<p>Agree with whoever assessed that Iran and Putin are ascending, and that Sun Tzu had it right.  Putin and the Chinese may have a more accurate view of Bush (and Cheney) than Congress.  After all, Putin and the Chinese aren’t blinded by sentiment.   But an unsentimental view of their crimes would necessitate impeachment. If these things were true, would missing warheads, or confirmation of a rogue ‘red flag’ operation involving nuclear attack, be enough to merit a Congressional re-think about impeachment?  If not, why not?</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35192</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35192</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting that the NIE has Iran suspending work on nuclear weapons in 2003 coincides with Iran attempting to engage the US diplomatically.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/17/AR2006061700727.html&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00727.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the NIE has Iran suspending work on nuclear weapons in 2003 coincides with Iran attempting to engage the US diplomatically.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/17/AR2006061700727.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00727.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35182</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35182</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The best Outcome would be for the Bush-created Obstructions of the Rule of Law (literally) to be Removed, and Our ‘System of Justice’ - as it was originally designed - allowed to operate freely once again, unfettered with the taint of Bush’s Ideological Politicization. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One of my take-aways from all of this is something that I think the Founders would have been Proud to hear shouted back at them 230 years distant - that We checked it out during the Bush-Neocon Ideology Plague, and Confirmed that OUR Constitution, well-tended, Keeps Tyranny in Remission!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wrestling control back from the Ideological Hijackers that Cravenly used the Shock of 911 to establish themselves above Legislative Oversight and Judicial Review has been a ‘close run thing,’ and accomplished only through the efforts of many, many good Americans - all in Service to the Rule of Law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Like abused kids, it will take US a while to realize there was nothing wrong with US to begin with - it’s only that Bush and Cheney said so, and then they didn’t allow anyone else to check or balance them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let the real hero be the Rule of Law, and we can turn this near disaster into a Strengthening Story to pass down through the Ages to Our decendents…joining Our Forefathers in knowing what it means to Almost Lose Living as Free Citizens of a Free Country.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best Outcome would be for the Bush-created Obstructions of the Rule of Law (literally) to be Removed, and Our ‘System of Justice’ &#8211; as it was originally designed &#8211; allowed to operate freely once again, unfettered with the taint of Bush’s Ideological Politicization. </p>
<p>One of my take-aways from all of this is something that I think the Founders would have been Proud to hear shouted back at them 230 years distant &#8211; that We checked it out during the Bush-Neocon Ideology Plague, and Confirmed that OUR Constitution, well-tended, Keeps Tyranny in Remission!</p>
<p>Wrestling control back from the Ideological Hijackers that Cravenly used the Shock of 911 to establish themselves above Legislative Oversight and Judicial Review has been a ‘close run thing,’ and accomplished only through the efforts of many, many good Americans &#8211; all in Service to the Rule of Law.</p>
<p>Like abused kids, it will take US a while to realize there was nothing wrong with US to begin with &#8211; it’s only that Bush and Cheney said so, and then they didn’t allow anyone else to check or balance them.</p>
<p>Let the real hero be the Rule of Law, and we can turn this near disaster into a Strengthening Story to pass down through the Ages to Our decendents…joining Our Forefathers in knowing what it means to Almost Lose Living as Free Citizens of a Free Country.</p>
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		<title>By: merkwurdiglieber</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35177</link>
		<dc:creator>merkwurdiglieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35177</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is not enough difference between the ER and Neocon Republican&lt;br /&gt;
view to make for a real split, the ERs and EDs both bought into the&lt;br /&gt;
petrodallar scheme of supertex John Connally as Nixon’s SecTreas. The&lt;br /&gt;
political mainstream has moved further and further rightward for so long&lt;br /&gt;
the middle, not to mention the left, are a long way from where we are&lt;br /&gt;
now… smells like Weimar to me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is not enough difference between the ER and Neocon Republican<br />
view to make for a real split, the ERs and EDs both bought into the<br />
petrodallar scheme of supertex John Connally as Nixon’s SecTreas. The<br />
political mainstream has moved further and further rightward for so long<br />
the middle, not to mention the left, are a long way from where we are<br />
now… smells like Weimar to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35176</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another thing to consider: Surely Pelosi, Reid, et al. appreciate full well that they have the opportunity to achieve something truly historical, even more important than removing Nixon was.  They would be famous forever.  But they’re not doing it.  So: What force is acting on this situation that’s powerful enough to outweigh that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing to consider: Surely Pelosi, Reid, et al. appreciate full well that they have the opportunity to achieve something truly historical, even more important than removing Nixon was.  They would be famous forever.  But they’re not doing it.  So: What force is acting on this situation that’s powerful enough to outweigh that?</p>
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		<title>By: phred</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35174</link>
		<dc:creator>phred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35174</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t know EW.  The frog in the pot analogy implies that one doesn’t have an external frame of reference to see how much trouble they are in.  Pelosi and Reid have been getting an earful on everything from impeachment to war funding to PAA to Mukasey and now the current round of FISA revisions.  I don’t think a case can be made that they are unaware of the issues at hand.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, I’ll agree, they don’t want to lose out on dinner ; )&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hmmm, I’ve got no idea what comes next.  Evidently there are those of the opinion that painting Cheney into a corner is imminently dangerous and others who think his time is up with the release of the NIE.  My preference, obviously, is impeachment.  It’s the only way to shut this down for sure.  I’m just hoping those with influence, whoever they may be, are successful at keeping things in check.  But, I definitely feel that the American public is being held hostage.  I just wish I knew why.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t know EW.  The frog in the pot analogy implies that one doesn’t have an external frame of reference to see how much trouble they are in.  Pelosi and Reid have been getting an earful on everything from impeachment to war funding to PAA to Mukasey and now the current round of FISA revisions.  I don’t think a case can be made that they are unaware of the issues at hand.</p>
<p>But, I’ll agree, they don’t want to lose out on dinner ; )</p>
<p>Hmmm, I’ve got no idea what comes next.  Evidently there are those of the opinion that painting Cheney into a corner is imminently dangerous and others who think his time is up with the release of the NIE.  My preference, obviously, is impeachment.  It’s the only way to shut this down for sure.  I’m just hoping those with influence, whoever they may be, are successful at keeping things in check.  But, I definitely feel that the American public is being held hostage.  I just wish I knew why.</p>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35162</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35162</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I dunno, at this point I think maybe phred’s got the story pegged.  Now I want to puzzle out exactly where things stand if phred &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; right.  In other words: If Cheney’s not completely neutralized, then what are his possible next moves?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With regard to EDs specifically, while statespersonlike restraint is certainly a major component of their tragic flaw portfolio, I never quite bought that it’s the whole of it.  As I have remarked more than once previously, ever since Pelosi came in there has been a sense that something very very large must be hanging over somebody’s head, and more and more it’s felt like the threatened party is not the EDs themselves, but rather the American people as a whole.  I.e. the EDs are frozen in place meaningful-remedies-wise because PNAC is holding us all hostage.  Hostage to what, exactly, has never been clear; leading contenders for that have been US economy crash, false flag attack, and/or suspension of the Constitution followed by dictatorship.  An Iran attack would seem to fit the scenario better than any of those.  So from where I sit, that all seems to fit with phred’s hypothesis too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hmmm.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, at this point I think maybe phred’s got the story pegged.  Now I want to puzzle out exactly where things stand if phred <i>is</i> right.  In other words: If Cheney’s not completely neutralized, then what are his possible next moves?</p>
<p>With regard to EDs specifically, while statespersonlike restraint is certainly a major component of their tragic flaw portfolio, I never quite bought that it’s the whole of it.  As I have remarked more than once previously, ever since Pelosi came in there has been a sense that something very very large must be hanging over somebody’s head, and more and more it’s felt like the threatened party is not the EDs themselves, but rather the American people as a whole.  I.e. the EDs are frozen in place meaningful-remedies-wise because PNAC is holding us all hostage.  Hostage to what, exactly, has never been clear; leading contenders for that have been US economy crash, false flag attack, and/or suspension of the Constitution followed by dictatorship.  An Iran attack would seem to fit the scenario better than any of those.  So from where I sit, that all seems to fit with phred’s hypothesis too.</p>
<p>Hmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35149</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35149</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think the EDs’ refusal to deal with impeachment has to do with one thing only–a belief that we’re still working according to the old political rules, that Bush is not as extreme as he really is. It’s the same problem the beltway media have–they’re staring at this frog in a pot of water every day, and never notice when it starts to fry. Plus, if they notice the frog frying, then they lose out on dinner.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the EDs’ refusal to deal with impeachment has to do with one thing only–a belief that we’re still working according to the old political rules, that Bush is not as extreme as he really is. It’s the same problem the beltway media have–they’re staring at this frog in a pot of water every day, and never notice when it starts to fry. Plus, if they notice the frog frying, then they lose out on dinner.</p>
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		<title>By: behindthefall</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/comment-page-2/#comment-35132</link>
		<dc:creator>behindthefall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/#comment-35132</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;With WordPress, you write a page instead of a post when you want a static presence for said content.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem with this site design, among other things, is there is no sidebar navigation where such things as links to static pages would appear. There’s no place for archives and there’s &lt;strong&gt;no navigation between blogs, from earliest to latest&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NIE timeline additions? I’m sure there’s loads more to add. The research monkeys are on the case and kicking bottom.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Emphasis mine.  Suppose you meant ‘posts’ not ‘blogs’.  Bingo.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>With WordPress, you write a page instead of a post when you want a static presence for said content.</p>
<p>The problem with this site design, among other things, is there is no sidebar navigation where such things as links to static pages would appear. There’s no place for archives and there’s <strong>no navigation between blogs, from earliest to latest</strong>.</p>
<p>NIE timeline additions? I’m sure there’s loads more to add. The research monkeys are on the case and kicking bottom.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Emphasis mine.  Suppose you meant ‘posts’ not ‘blogs’.  Bingo.</p>
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