Comments on: Dick’s Shooting Ranch: the Welfare Queen of the Farm Bill http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:27:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1918 Anonymous Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:40:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1918 <p>Bird killer Cheney is going off to shoot up some farm-raised ducks at the Clove Valley Rod and Gun Club in NY. Does anyone know if this farm gets agricultural or other subsidies from the government?</p> Bird killer Cheney is going off to shoot up some farm-raised ducks at the Clove Valley Rod and Gun Club in NY. Does anyone know if this farm gets agricultural or other subsidies from the government?

]]> By: phred http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1917 phred Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:04:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1917 <p>Thanks for the comments John L. I’m curious, have you read Michael Pollan’s Omnivore’s Dilemma? There is a section in there that discusses the slaughtering issue for locally produced meat pretty well. It just seems to me that there ought to be a better solution to the problem than what we currently have. Clearly, given the recent massive meat recalls (one of which just put Topps out of business) indicates that even the current federally approved facilities aren’t really up to snuff. Granted this has a good bit to do with lax inspection and even more lax enforcement.</p> <p>I agree the subsidy question is complicated (again I refer you to Pollan’s book for an excellent discussion of the problem) and I am not arguing for simply flipping a switch that brings an end to corn, cotton, and soy subsidies while putting new ones in place for fruits and vegetables. However, a phased program or one with incentives could make a big difference both in terms of growing switchgrass etc. instead of corn for ethanol (which makes a big difference environmentally) and in terms of making a healthier diet more readily available to all Americans (as opposed to the cheapest food being the most highly processed and hence the worst for your health).</p> <p>When your broadband comes up, please do pass along the links you mentioned… Thanks!</p> Thanks for the comments John L. I’m curious, have you read Michael Pollan’s Omnivore’s Dilemma? There is a section in there that discusses the slaughtering issue for locally produced meat pretty well. It just seems to me that there ought to be a better solution to the problem than what we currently have. Clearly, given the recent massive meat recalls (one of which just put Topps out of business) indicates that even the current federally approved facilities aren’t really up to snuff. Granted this has a good bit to do with lax inspection and even more lax enforcement.

I agree the subsidy question is complicated (again I refer you to Pollan’s book for an excellent discussion of the problem) and I am not arguing for simply flipping a switch that brings an end to corn, cotton, and soy subsidies while putting new ones in place for fruits and vegetables. However, a phased program or one with incentives could make a big difference both in terms of growing switchgrass etc. instead of corn for ethanol (which makes a big difference environmentally) and in terms of making a healthier diet more readily available to all Americans (as opposed to the cheapest food being the most highly processed and hence the worst for your health).

When your broadband comes up, please do pass along the links you mentioned… Thanks!

]]> By: John Lopresti http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1916 John Lopresti Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:40:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1916 <p>Phr’, I tend to side with the meat inspectors, having been a polysyllabic cow herder instead of the stereotypical variety, though there is a lot of similarity when it comes to persuading your herd to do your will. The search for the cotton subsidy information is delayed, but <a href="http://www.panna.org/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html">there</a> is an interesting discussion of some impacts; the matter is more subtle both tradewise and agroeconomically. Mostly I still would do the literature research before trying to depict the beneficiaries in 2007, though some years ago comparable data for that era was here in the library. Noncellulosic corn growers are enjoying a hayday in the current farm bill. Our broadband is unavailable now, or I would delve into the earthjustice and NRdc spreadsheets on some of this material to link here.</p> Phr’, I tend to side with the meat inspectors, having been a polysyllabic cow herder instead of the stereotypical variety, though there is a lot of similarity when it comes to persuading your herd to do your will. The search for the cotton subsidy information is delayed, but there is an interesting discussion of some impacts; the matter is more subtle both tradewise and agroeconomically. Mostly I still would do the literature research before trying to depict the beneficiaries in 2007, though some years ago comparable data for that era was here in the library. Noncellulosic corn growers are enjoying a hayday in the current farm bill. Our broadband is unavailable now, or I would delve into the earthjustice and NRdc spreadsheets on some of this material to link here.

]]> By: phred http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1915 phred Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:57:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1915 <p>mainsailset — thanks so much for the link. Any chance Goldmark will try again? He sounds great!</p> mainsailset — thanks so much for the link. Any chance Goldmark will try again? He sounds great!

]]> By: Anonymous http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1914 Anonymous Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:27:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1914 <p>Peter Goldmark was the first that I heard to use the term National Security Crops. Incredible candidate in 2006 that couldn’t overcome a very strong red part of the state. Here’s a link to a great story about how he framed his platform</p> <p><a href="http://www.inlander.com/topstory/286766598332577.php">http://www.inlander.com/topsto…..332577.php</a></p> <p>well worth the read.</p> Peter Goldmark was the first that I heard to use the term National Security Crops. Incredible candidate in 2006 that couldn’t overcome a very strong red part of the state. Here’s a link to a great story about how he framed his platform

http://www.inlander.com/topsto…..332577.php

well worth the read.

]]> By: phred http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1913 phred Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:06:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1913 <p>mainsailset — I like the term â€national security cropsâ€. I haven’t heard it put that way before. The benefits of better farm policy are astonishingly widespread ranging from better economic security for farmers and their local economies to higher quality food to more affordable fruits and vegetables to crop and herd biodiversity which would be more resilient to pests and disease to environmental benefits from not having to fly food halfway around the world from producers to consumers.</p> <p>By the way, did you read about the farmer in VA who was arrested for slaughtering his own meat? The FDA (or would it be USDA, not sure on this point) insist all meat be slaughtered in approved facilities. Evidently they are incapable of coming up with permitting rules that would make it possible for individual farmers to do their own slaughtering in an inspected and approved manner. I’m not opposed to upholding standards of cleanliness and food safety, but you can’t convince me that individual farmers can’t set up the equivalent of an FDA approved milking parlor when it comes to slaughtering their animals.</p> <p>Gnome, sounds like your great-granddad had a much bigger operation than the ones I’m familiar with, but something that is common between our experiences is the sale of farm land to developers. It breaks my heart to see it, but I can’t blame anyone for selling their land when they can no longer make a living farming it.</p> mainsailset — I like the term â€national security cropsâ€. I haven’t heard it put that way before. The benefits of better farm policy are astonishingly widespread ranging from better economic security for farmers and their local economies to higher quality food to more affordable fruits and vegetables to crop and herd biodiversity which would be more resilient to pests and disease to environmental benefits from not having to fly food halfway around the world from producers to consumers.

By the way, did you read about the farmer in VA who was arrested for slaughtering his own meat? The FDA (or would it be USDA, not sure on this point) insist all meat be slaughtered in approved facilities. Evidently they are incapable of coming up with permitting rules that would make it possible for individual farmers to do their own slaughtering in an inspected and approved manner. I’m not opposed to upholding standards of cleanliness and food safety, but you can’t convince me that individual farmers can’t set up the equivalent of an FDA approved milking parlor when it comes to slaughtering their animals.

Gnome, sounds like your great-granddad had a much bigger operation than the ones I’m familiar with, but something that is common between our experiences is the sale of farm land to developers. It breaks my heart to see it, but I can’t blame anyone for selling their land when they can no longer make a living farming it.

]]> By: mainsailset http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1912 mainsailset Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:20:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1912 <p>well said Phred. Small farmers = diversity; ie, take the spinach scare last year where you have huge farms held under large corporate umbrellas and when a single problem raises it head; bad irrigation pipes, poor packaging, etc. the effects to human health are exaggerated from what they would be if the crops had been sourced from a larger quantity of smaller farms spread out, using different soils, irrigation, packaging, etc. We’re starting here to call these small farmers’ operations ’national security crops’ as their diversity protects against single sourced disasters.</p> well said Phred. Small farmers = diversity; ie, take the spinach scare last year where you have huge farms held under large corporate umbrellas and when a single problem raises it head; bad irrigation pipes, poor packaging, etc. the effects to human health are exaggerated from what they would be if the crops had been sourced from a larger quantity of smaller farms spread out, using different soils, irrigation, packaging, etc. We’re starting here to call these small farmers’ operations ’national security crops’ as their diversity protects against single sourced disasters.

]]> By: Anonymous http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1911 Anonymous Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:43:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1911 <p>I’ve been reflecting on the difference between my extended Central Texas family and the South Texas bunch that Cheney hangs with. The difference is OIL. My family’s land became valuable because of real estate - location, location, location. The south Texas land has a bunch of oil under it and not much on top except for quail and dove. Hence the connection to Houston. (There is an old joke about the last category 4 or 5 hurricane to hit Texas - it came in half way between Corpus and Brownsville, right over the King Ranch - and it did 30 million dollars worth of improvements. [It really did, since it created some cuts in the barrier islands that the Corps was going to have to dig to help the Laguna Madre water quality]) </p> <p>Mr. Gnome’s career has taken him through the oil and gas gang in Houston, so I am familiar with that bunch and the spin-offs from there - the law firms (Baker & Botts) the service companies - Schlumberger and Halliburton, etc. Lots of money, huge egos and machismo. When OIL is no more, these people will be no more unless like some smart ones, they figure out the future things of value and start buying them up. Right now they are fighting tooth and nail to keep oil king. Which is the whole point of the Bush and Cheney administration.</p> I’ve been reflecting on the difference between my extended Central Texas family and the South Texas bunch that Cheney hangs with. The difference is OIL. My family’s land became valuable because of real estate – location, location, location. The south Texas land has a bunch of oil under it and not much on top except for quail and dove. Hence the connection to Houston. (There is an old joke about the last category 4 or 5 hurricane to hit Texas – it came in half way between Corpus and Brownsville, right over the King Ranch – and it did 30 million dollars worth of improvements. [It really did, since it created some cuts in the barrier islands that the Corps was going to have to dig to help the Laguna Madre water quality])

Mr. Gnome’s career has taken him through the oil and gas gang in Houston, so I am familiar with that bunch and the spin-offs from there – the law firms (Baker & Botts) the service companies – Schlumberger and Halliburton, etc. Lots of money, huge egos and machismo. When OIL is no more, these people will be no more unless like some smart ones, they figure out the future things of value and start buying them up. Right now they are fighting tooth and nail to keep oil king. Which is the whole point of the Bush and Cheney administration.

]]> By: phred http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1910 phred Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:20:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1910 <p>My my my, what have we here? A troll who can’t get her Republican Talking Points straight? Better be careful Jodi, another mess up like this and you’ll get kicked out of the Rethug-shill-for-hire club.</p> <p>No one, and I do mean NO ONE has ever questioned the citizenship of farmers or ranchers with respect to the farm bill. No dear little troll the mantra is Family Farmers and Ranchers. You see, you need to conjure up the heartwarming image of Ma and Pa farmer surrounded by their wee little future farmers and their 100 acre spreads upon which to raise the little’uns and make a living.</p> <p>These were the folks I grew up with in the upper Midwest and I can tell you they are mostly gone now, thanks to the subsidies you love so well going to huge corporate operations. Indeed it was our farming friends back in the ’70s who explained to us how the farm bill was going to put them all out of business.</p> <p>A good farm bill that stopped the corporate handouts, supported family-size farms and ranches, encouraged vegetable crops and reduced the all-consuming importance of King Corn and Soybeans would do pretty much everyone a world of good. Excepting of course your corporate chums who pay for your shillness.</p> My my my, what have we here? A troll who can’t get her Republican Talking Points straight? Better be careful Jodi, another mess up like this and you’ll get kicked out of the Rethug-shill-for-hire club.

No one, and I do mean NO ONE has ever questioned the citizenship of farmers or ranchers with respect to the farm bill. No dear little troll the mantra is Family Farmers and Ranchers. You see, you need to conjure up the heartwarming image of Ma and Pa farmer surrounded by their wee little future farmers and their 100 acre spreads upon which to raise the little’uns and make a living.

These were the folks I grew up with in the upper Midwest and I can tell you they are mostly gone now, thanks to the subsidies you love so well going to huge corporate operations. Indeed it was our farming friends back in the ’70s who explained to us how the farm bill was going to put them all out of business.

A good farm bill that stopped the corporate handouts, supported family-size farms and ranches, encouraged vegetable crops and reduced the all-consuming importance of King Corn and Soybeans would do pretty much everyone a world of good. Excepting of course your corporate chums who pay for your shillness.

]]> By: P J Evans http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-1909 P J Evans Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:45:00 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dicks-shooting-ranch-the-welfare-queen-of-the-farm-bill/#comment-1909 <p>The people who ’need’ subsidies to keep the land from being built on probably just need the money to maintain their lifestyle. There are ways to preserve open space that don’t require the government handouts - but these are the same kind of people that want top dollar from the open-space preservation groups, ’or else they’ll sell to developers’.</p> <p>Gnome, your grandfather sounds like he would have been interesting to tallk with.</p> The people who ’need’ subsidies to keep the land from being built on probably just need the money to maintain their lifestyle. There are ways to preserve open space that don’t require the government handouts – but these are the same kind of people that want top dollar from the open-space preservation groups, ’or else they’ll sell to developers’.

Gnome, your grandfather sounds like he would have been interesting to tallk with.

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